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Export ban on Turner painting

(29 Posts)
Merseybelle2 Sat 03-Aug-19 08:40:52

I love Art but I don’t think a Turner is worth putting an export ban on while someone tries to raise ten million to stop it going abroad. The Walker Art Gallery in Liverpool is stuffed with fabulous paintings, including Turners, and it’s not as if we’ve only got two Turners in the whole country ! I can think of a lot more reasons worthy of raising ten million for ! Like helping the homeless/ young families in trouble/ housing etc. I for one will happily stand at the Pier Head and wave the Turner off with my hanky ! What do other GN’s think ? smile

EllanVannin Sat 03-Aug-19 09:26:29

I too love art and have all kinds of prints dotted around the place but I wouldn't pay anything to stop a painting from leaving the country. Like yourself, I'd be waving it off too----from across the water by the lighthouse !
I can't understand the sums of money that change hands when selling some painting or other, even to moving walls on which the artist Banksy has drawn on, paying thousands.

I just feel that some people have got more money than sense especially when it's a Picasso where you might find an eye in the knee-cap type of painting. Yes, it could be better spent elsewhere that's for sure.

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 09:58:53

The irony is that this painting is of Lake Lucerne and Swiss mountains.
If this was a painting of an iconic British scene I might understand efforts to keep it here but, just because the artist was British does not mean we have a right to keep all his paintings in this country. After all, we have masterpieces by artists from other countries in our galleries here.

I can't help wondering if Turner would be astonished by this?

Pantglas1 Sat 03-Aug-19 10:00:23

I agree with both of your posts and especially your comment on Picasso EllanVannin - we visited his museum in Malaga and most of his works were as you describe! Some of the sketches were good though and I do like Guernica which I haven’t seen up close yet.

GabriellaG54 Sat 03-Aug-19 10:11:43

Whatever you buy, painting or Parmesan, it's only worth what a customer will pay. There is no true value. Look at 'Sunflowers'. It could be a child's drawing, were it not for the false 'Emperor's new clothes' hubbub surrounding the artist.

There was an exhibit in London Tate several years ago, where a huge chair made out of glued together bare unpainted chicken bones had a price tag of over £16k.
Totally ridiculous.
Some of the other 'art' included few daubs on an 8" square canvas with a tag of £2k.

Pantglas1 Sat 03-Aug-19 10:20:33

I don’t remember that one GabriellaG54!

My particular favourite is Tracey Emin’s unmade made....although Damien Hirst’s sheep pickled in formaldehyde runs it a close second!

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 10:27:33

The question is surely 'do we have a right to try to prevent this painting leaving the country?'

Does it belong to us, the nation, just because the artist was British or is art universal?

The supposed value is irrelevant.

Merseybelle2 Sat 03-Aug-19 10:36:45

Interesting point Callistemon !
There’s such a lot of rubbish masquerading as art nowadays GabriellaG54 I saw one exhibition Up North that was just a load of old padlocks locked in a circle, we thought it was more a load of old **ocks but I expect beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! I’m an art collector myself of course, with an extensive collection sourced from my local charity shops smile

suziewoozie Sat 03-Aug-19 10:37:02

It isn’t a competition between funding the Turner or helping the homeless etc. Some people will give to one of those causes and some to both. I think export bans are a good idea as they give an opportunity for funds to be raised. The money would not go to the homeless instead - it just doesn’t work like that. However, on the wider issue of art as an investment - it’s awful isn’t t? If I were dictator for a day, I would take all paintings out of private ownership, or at least say all art had to be on public display and would organise far more tours of art so that all parts of the country could enjoy all our treasures. It sounds a bit mean spirited to say you’d wave a Turner off- why do you want to deny the pleasure of seeing it to others? Bread and Roses, Bread and Roses.

Riverwalk Sat 03-Aug-19 10:53:38

Bread and Roses indeed suzie.

We shouldn't let our artistic heritage be shipped-off to the highest bidder, if funds can be raised.

GabriellaG54 Sat 03-Aug-19 11:02:47

You're right. Silly me. It was the RA 2012 Summer Exhibition. I found a photo of the chair but can't get the whole pic in screenshot. Chair was really tall.

Three of us went on the Eye, toured the RA exhibits, took tea at F&M (overpriced and not even 4 star) dinner + b&b at Radisson Blu Edwardian Vanderbilt and concert at Royal Albert Hall with Daniel and Michael Barenboim.

Michael's violin solos were a screeching cacophony...dreadful, and the venue was stifling. No air at all. Never again.

eazybee Sat 03-Aug-19 11:16:20

Considering how many works there are by Turner stored away rather than housed in a permanent collection, as he requested, it is hypocritical to try and prevent one painting leaving the country.
And a ridiculous amount of money.

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 11:24:13

If I were dictator for a day, I would take all paintings out of private ownership, or at least say all art had to be on public display
You're not having my JoLoMo's suziewoozie even though they're only prints!!

We shouldn't let our artistic heritage be shipped-off to the highest bidder, if funds can be raised.
In that case we should be magnanimous and return every single painting and piece of art which was painted by foreign artists and which hang in our galleries here in the UK.
What right have we to hang on to the Elgin Marbles?

M0nica Sat 03-Aug-19 12:00:41

I think these refusals of export licences should be limited to those of artists poorly represented on British Galleries, paintings of particularly British significance, a hypothetical example: the only known portrait of a person of British significance, say a medieval monarch.

But Turner? he was a prolific artist, whose work is extensively on display in most art galleries and stately homes, we can afford (not in the monetary sense) to let it go.

suziewoozie Sat 03-Aug-19 12:04:19

We’ve moved on since then Callistemon but I do agree with returning certain things like the Elgin Marbles and shrunken heads. Many of our ‘treasures’ have a pretty murky provenance. However, the Turner is not in this category - it’s in the UK, painted by a UK artist and if the money can be raised, it would be great to have it next to the Blue Riga in the Tate.

suziewoozie Sat 03-Aug-19 12:05:25

MOnica the Dark Riga is not just any old Turner is it?

mcem Sat 03-Aug-19 12:09:35

It isn't clear whether the plan is for it to go into public or private ownership. If private, and enough people want to 'chip in' then that's their business.
If public ownership is proposed that's a different issue and is about priorities.
Spending on the arts or on basic necessities?
Public funds come from different 'pockets' and cash allocated for one cause can't just be switched to another at will.
A bit like choosing a charity on a personal level - children or donkeys?

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 12:12:50

Is this proposal for crowdfunding or for taxpayers' money to be used?
I take your point, mcem but is this painting of such importance?

suziewoozie Sat 03-Aug-19 12:25:29

Rigi - Rigi- Rigi

Riverwalk Sat 03-Aug-19 12:31:36

My son lives in Lucerne and I've been up Mt Rigi - maybe I'll ask him to buy it and donate to the nation grin

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 12:32:18

while someone tries to raise ten million to stop it going abroad.

I think that's fair enough if it's from crowdfunding or philanthropists who are going to give it to a national art gallery but I do not think we should think we have a right to it because it was painted by an English artist.

Gonegirl Sat 03-Aug-19 12:37:45

Is it going to an art gallery, or a private collection? That makes a difference IMO. Too many art works get secreted away.

Callistemon Sat 03-Aug-19 14:38:08

Agreed - better a gallery overseas than secreted away in a private collection here.
And the converse, of course.

Deedaa Sat 03-Aug-19 15:31:59

To be honest we have got an awful lot of Turners in galleries round the country. I can't see the problem with letting this one go.

Anniebach Sat 03-Aug-19 15:37:28

We didn’t buy the Elgin Marbles