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Is this virtue signalling or is it genuine consideration?

(97 Posts)
GillT57 Wed 18-Sep-19 11:56:51

Been mulling this one over for a week or so, and wondered what anyone else thought. I heard part of a programme on Radio 4, it was an 'our family' type discussion, and the guests were Jada Pinkett-Smith ( wife of Will Smith) and their daughter Willow. Jada said how proud she was of Willow for having taken vegan food to street people who were living rough. My first thought was how patronising, and surely if people are on their uppers, are starving, they are not bothered about food being vegan, then I thought, why should being homeless mean you no longer have the means or ability to make what may be ethical choices about what you eat? What does anyone else think? Is this a moral dilemma or just piffling?

BlueBelle Wed 18-Sep-19 16:31:57

Oh come on Beckett you can’t go with a menu to the homeless if they have an allergy they won’t eat it
They aren’t talking about feeding one homeless person it was the daughter taking food to ‘the homeless’ I think it’s perfectly acceptable that if she’s a vegan herself she takes vegan food just as a vegetarian would not take a chicken
Whether it’s bragging or not I m not sure The mother may have been genuinely proud of her daughter thinking of others or it could have been gain g brownie points I supposed you’d only know if you knew the family personally

Baggs Wed 18-Sep-19 16:39:43

Why did the fact that it was vegan food Willow was taking to hungry people have to be mentioned? There is nothing virtuous or ethical about being vegan.

She did a good thing taking food to hungry people.

Baggs Wed 18-Sep-19 16:40:30

I agree, Gaunt, about the publicity stunt angle.

Scentia Wed 18-Sep-19 17:22:46

I buy a guy in our town a vegan sausage roll on a Friday, never asked if he is vegan, but I am, so I just buy what I will eat if he happens not to be there one day!! Only happened once, they are quite nice?

GillT57 Wed 18-Sep-19 17:29:48

This has certainly been an interesting discussion!

Chewbacca Wed 18-Sep-19 17:36:09

This is a bit old news now but, back in 2017, Kim Kardashian took her 2 children -on a photo opportunity-- to offer food to the homeless in Los Angeles. It was whilst she was smiling broadly to the just happened to be in the area- cameras that it was noticed that she and her children were all wearing protective gloves.

GillT57 Wed 18-Sep-19 17:55:41

Vile, but not surprising chewbacca.

Witzend Wed 18-Sep-19 19:21:06

On a cold night my dd once bought a Big Mac for someone with a 'homeless and hungry' placard.
He told her to eff off.
Maybe he'd have preferred a quinoa and beetroot salad.

(Just kidding - all he wanted was money, of course.)

And yes, OP, I do think it was virtue signalling, of a decidedly cringe-making variety.

Hellsbells63 Thu 19-Sep-19 10:19:49

Plenty of protein in vegan food.
Where do you think the cows and sheep you eat get their protein from?

counterpoint Thu 19-Sep-19 10:24:02

Sorry, but I think use of the term “virtue signalling” is mean and nasty. It’s far too often used against anyone advocating doing something good. I’m glad that people care about the cruel exploitation of farm animals. It’s good to be upset about how many people in our wealthy society are destitute. Maybe motives are mixed, but let’s look at the positives and encourage people to try to do good.

Lilyflower Thu 19-Sep-19 10:25:49

An amusing conflation in the OP's original post of vegan with ethical. I should have thought it was pretty much the opposite.

NotSpaghetti Thu 19-Sep-19 10:28:43

I didn't hear or see the original so feel unable to comment on that. Often the answer is in the way something is said, tone of voice and gesture.

Stansgran is concerned about the nutritional aspects - well yes, a vegan diet (like all other diets) can be rich or poor in vitamins and minerals but you do need to think about it. You can't just take out whole food groups without careful replacements. In this context though I would think it was at most a few meals. I think a diet of just sandwiches or baked potatoes or sausages or whatever is ultimately no better. As someone said earlier, people living on the streets have less choices regarding what they eat. Sometimes no choice at all.

Regarding food "gifts" to homeless people, I can't remember the details but remember hearing from someone on the streets that they were never given food with much in the way of vegetables in.
They missed it.
I suppose that's obvious really as the "easy" things to give are sandwiches and "fast food" such as sausage rolls/pizza slices etc as they are not too expensive, easily available, perceived to be filling and generally acceptable.

I think a vegetable-based dish would be quite a change. Might not suit everyone though I suppose.

Ideally we would work harder to prevent homelessness. That's the real issue here I think. The UK should adopt the "Housing First" model that is having success elsewhere... but as it's more expensive initially (though much cheaper longer term), I expect we won't.

oldgimmer1 Thu 19-Sep-19 10:34:46

The point is, surely, that she's "doing something good" hmm whilst going out of her way to make sure that everyone knows it.

So yes, virtue signalling of a rather preachy kind.

People help the homeless every day, ffs, and never seek publicity, recognition or appreciation.

sandelf Thu 19-Sep-19 10:47:06

I don't think its a 'moral dilemma', but when I chose to put something in the local food bank hopper, I put something I myself WOULD use/eat - not the cheapest if I know the cheapest is not fit for purpose IYCWIM.

sarahellenwhitney Thu 19-Sep-19 10:52:05

One way of getting their eighteen year old daughter into the limelight.

BusterTank Thu 19-Sep-19 10:53:17

It you were that hungry you wouldn't care what is was you were eating . I think ethics goes out of the window , when you don't know were your next meal is coming from . You'll be grateful for anything .

Jaxie Thu 19-Sep-19 10:55:11

It's virtue signalling; it's also bad form to boast about your children. What does it say in the Bible about charity: never let your left hand know what your right hand is doing ( or something to that effect). Someone once admired a new jacket I was wearing. An acquaintance in the group commented," I buy all MY clothes at the charity shop. I felt like saying, " What do you want, a medal."

Annecan Thu 19-Sep-19 10:59:01

It’s virtue signalling of the worst order
Why tell the whole world?
Only to show how ‘right on’ she is

petalmoore Thu 19-Sep-19 11:02:02

I didn’t see the show so can’t tell whether either Willow or her mother was virtue-signalling. I am wary, though, of celebrities ‘showing their children off’ - it seems exploitative. I think the vegan thing is a side issue - I know a lot of vegans, many of whom have the zeal of the converted, and it can be easy to feel defensive about being an omnivore. That’s what makes it sound like virtue-signalling. But there’s no need for any of the rest of us to respond to the signals if we don’t want to.m, and I’ve learned to realise that there’s no requirement for me to defend myself. It may or may not be intended as virtue-signalling in this case, and as I said I don’t know which of them brought the topic up. But Willow wouldn’t have been on camera at all if her mother hadn’t been famous (I’m assuming she is - I’ve never heard of her). The moral issue here is how people treat their children.

Annaram1 Thu 19-Sep-19 11:10:37

I bought a reduced price vegan beef wellington at Waitrose, where they often reduce food and a lot of it is vegan. Beef wellington? It was just like a beetroot in pastry. I hate beetroot.
It put me off vegan food. I eat vegetarian meals from time to time though.

janeainsworth Thu 19-Sep-19 11:22:59

In the context of a programme about one’s family, I don’t think expressing pride in what one’s children have done is necessarily virtue-signalling.
To me the issue is what Jada Pinkett-Smith was proud of.
If she was proud of her daughter doing something to help the homeless, that’s justified.
Being proud of being vegan isn’t. It’s just a dietary choice and other choices are just as valid, and possibly more ethical than veganism.

I’m reading Raynor Winn’s book ‘the Salt Path’. Homeless, she and her husband walked the South-west Coast Path on a very limited income. They existed on rice, noodles and mars bars mainly. They would have been grateful for anything given to them.

GillT57 Thu 19-Sep-19 12:08:46

Lots of different points brought up here. I am a vegetarian, don't preach, it is quite easy for me as I have never really liked meat, the only difficulty was the occasional bacon sandwich. But, going slightly off at a tangent; how far would anyone think it sensible to take their ethical/religious beliefs? I saw a recorded interview, many years ago, with a woman who had fled atrocities against Jewish people, was found, half starved by some people in the country who took her in, gave her a warm bath, clean clothes and a hot meal. She was proud of the fact that despite being starved to the point of emaciation and permanent physical damage, that she refused to eat the pork which was all these people were able to offer her, they too had suffered deprivation. I was astonished, to put it mildly, that anyone would think their God would judge them for going against dietary laws in such extremis. Possibly off the original conversation, but maybe not?

LondonMzFitz Thu 19-Sep-19 12:42:34

I'm moving steadily to a vegetarian diet, as a nod to the environment and to animal welfare. Yes I think it was dubious "self" promotion to mention her daughter's actions, but I wouldn't have a problem with the food being offered to someone genuinely hungry as vegan.

As a kid in the 60's & 70's we didn't eat meat as part of a daily diet. I don't think the choice was there for one, plus storage - I'm now 60 and I remember vividly the milk bottle being kept in a bucket of cold water as we didn't have a fridge.

SirChenjin Thu 19-Sep-19 12:56:27

But what if that hungry person wasn't vegan - does Willow's food choices trump theirs because they're hungry and homeless, and should therefore be grateful for any morsel given to them?

MissAdventure Thu 19-Sep-19 12:56:32

Has anyone considered those with lactose intolerance or gluten allergies?