Pavements for people?

Cyclists can be a menace,I loathe when they suddenly turn up behind me.Where we live, not in the UK, the worst thing at the moment is those electric scooters everyone seems to be using ,and they are used on pavements, not only that,they are dumping them everywhere,they just get off them and leave them on pavements outside shops, this has become so dangerous for people, especially partially sighted people,they are a complete menace,and need to be stopped.

hurdygurdy I would take issue with one point you made about using a bell on pavements to notify pedestrians of your imminent approach. Why are you ringing your bell? Presumably to get the pedestrian, who has every right to walk on the pavement, to move out of the way so that you, who should not be cycling on the pavement, don’t have the inconvenience of slowing down or stopping, getting off your bike and walking past the pedestrian. Why should we have to stop our walk and stand aside to make way for you?

Doodle we have shared pavements where I live. Part is marker off in lines for cycles and th rest for pedestrians. Pedestrians often stray across the lines so cyclists can warn them of their approach.

I’m quite shocked by the aggression in this thread towards cyclists in general. Yes, some are a pest but not the majority. Same as drivers, pedestrians, mobility scooters, etc..

I take note of what is said about cycle paths but they are to narrow for a cyclist and have a habit of just ending suddenly. Also cars park in them and so you have to move out into mainstream traffic so that is why we tend to cycle on the roads with the traffic.

Bells, well I always ring my bell when approaching someone, not for the them to get of the way as I can often just go around them but to WARN them I am about and not give them a shock.

We should in this country take on how Holland handles their thousands of cyclists. Shared paths in the town. and decent cycle lanes elwhere. Also the rule is motorist have to give way to cyclists. There seems to be no problems there with attitude from anyone and cyclist cycle happily around town centres and even shopping malls. Cycling is the way forward. And as for helmets, well the jury is out on that one and my cycling magazine recently had an article on why not to wear one.

It is against the law to cycle on the pavement I think! I agree that so many cyclists seem to think they are above it and don't observe the rules of the road or the Highway Code. It used to be that children were given cycling proficiency training at school but that seems to have gone out of the window!

www.slatergordon.co.uk/media-centre/blog/2018/03/is-it-illegal-to-ride-your-bicycle-on-the-pavement/

* shouldn’t use their bells to alert other people that they are approaching (Doodledog )*

No, they should dismount and walk when passing pedestrians on a pavement. I have reposted the link that shows that it is illegal to ride a bike on a pavement, in case you missed it the first time.

Rubbish, there are MANY places where it is perfectly legal to cycle on the pavement. I can cycle from junction 34 of M4 into centre of Cardiff and then on to Penarth and out to Cardiff Bay and back to junction 34, a distance of 20 miles plus where I don't ever go on the road. The whole distance on shared trail and pavements. There are also many others routes that I use where I am legally allowed to use the pavement. I also don't expect to get off my bike to get around people I have as much right to be on these paths as you. All it needs is tolerance and some people just don't have that.

I assume that the routes you describe are not pavements, as the Highway Code clearly states that 'You must not cycle on a pavement'. Canal towpaths and similar walkways are not pavements, and they are shared spaces where tolerance and good manners are required.

We may differ about whether ringing a bell to tell someone to move out of your way is good manners or not; but regardless, on a pavement (ie the path to the side of a carriageway) it is illegal to ride a bike. You can rubbish' that as much as you like, but it is in the Highway code.

I think we should take a leaf out of the Danes' book. Everybody, from 0 -100 cycles in Copenhagen, some in trailers, and there are proper cycles lanes, everywhere - often 2 lane with traffic lights. I realise it is flat and they don't have our problems of very narrow medieval streets or hills to contend with but still if you make things easier for people to cycle safely it would encourage more of the sensible variety, like ourselves, to get on our bikes and use our polluting cars less.
I don't think there is any excuse for blocking pavements with cars.

I think this is a very British problem caused by our crowded country/roads, years of underfunding of infrastructure and an integrated transport system. In other countries, public areas are peacefully shared.

There is a difference between a pavement and a shared path. Local authorities are increasingly creating shared paths because we need to promote cycling. Households no longer have one car but instead anything between 2 and 5, one for each member of the family. This is creating gridlock, anger and speeding on the roads and the massive problems of air pollution. The latter is hidden but causes major health problems and increased incidence of respiratory disease.

Yes, there is a new kind of cycle training (called Bikeability) once called cycle proficiency. For most who've posted here, you won't want to know that this teaches sharing the road space with cyclists taught to take the centre lane position when speeds are low. At 15mph, a fit cyclist has no problem with keeping up and there is no reason that a car should take priority. Cycle lanes are often badly maintained, stop abruptly, are parked on or simply don't exist, hence many able cyclists use the roads.

Cycling on pavements isn't acceptable but increasingly civil order is breaking down in the UK and people disregard others in many ways. Its especially bad in large, urban areas, ranting at cyclists who are just other humans trying to get about is a good example.

No Doodlebugs I can assure you many of them are PAVEMENTS, in fact on one route they run right past a row of terrace houses with doors opening onto the pavement. I have not hear or read of any accidents. I my town there is a large area around and in the town of shared pavements. Ringing the bell as I said if often used just to warn you we are nearby and you don't necessarily have to move, we are just being polite and trying not to scare you. Many people, thank me.

Councils are changing their attitude towards cyclists and doing their best to make it safer so I am afraid you will just have to get use to the change in attitude.

Doodledog just because the Highway Code clearly states that 'You must not cycle on a pavement'. doesn't mean that people do not do it.

Walk round any town or along any road with clearly defined pedestrians only pavements and sooner or later (usually sooner) you will meet a cyclist cycling on the pavement.

There are some very ignorant, stupid motorists out there too. For example, those who verbally (and sometimes physically) abuse perfectly sensible, law-abiding cyclists as they pass them, just for the he'll of it. Those who overtake cycists on blind stretches of road, where they gamble on nothing coming the other way. Those who yell at cyclists going the opposite direction on light-controlled stretches/across bridges etc., too ignorant to realize that the cyclist set off when the lights were green but has not had time to clear the stretch before the lights have changed in the other direction. I could go on!
No wonder cyclists resort to using pavements in some areas.

Spellchecker always corrects hell to he'll! Grrr.

May I just say that all my comments relate to ordinary pavements and not shared ones. Where I live there are no shared pavements. Obviously where there are such things then I imagine cyclists have a right to use them and ringing the bell to warn pedestrians on their bit of the path would be courteous. Where I live without the shared paths, ringing the bell usually means get out of my way.

I never abuse cyclists on the road (or anywhere come to that) and always make sure I leave enough space when driving past or slow down and wait until there is enough room. I do realise cyclists can have a rough time with some motorists but my issue is with their use of non shared pavements.

doodlebug - "hurdygurdy I would take issue with one point you made about using a bell on pavements to notify pedestrians of your imminent approach. Why are you ringing your bell? Presumably to get the pedestrian, who has every right to walk on the pavement, to move out of the way so that you, who should not be cycling on the pavement, don’t have the inconvenience of slowing down or stopping, getting off your bike and walking past the pedestrian. Why should we have to stop our walk and stand aside to make way for you?

Absolutely not. I use my bell (on a SHARED pavement/cycle path (as mentioned in my post) AND on the traffic free route I use) to warn pedestrians (and other cyclists, if I am moving faster than they are) that I am there, and approaching them from behind. In much the same way that when a car flashes its headlights at another car, it's actually saying "I am here" (i.e. a warning) and not "I'm stopping for you so you can come through" (although that's generally how it's accepted).

So when pedestrians are straddling the SHARED pavement - you think I should approach silently, dismount and walk around them, because pedestrians have more right to use that shared space than cyclists?

Fortunately, everyone I have passed so far, as taken a step or two to the side to allow me to cycle past them, and acknowledged my cheery "thank you".

I am well aware that the highway code states that cyclists should not use pavements, and that is why I don't use them.

There's a song in here somewhere!

The motorists hate the cyclists,
The cyclists hate the walkers,
The walkers hate everyone
Apart from the wretched dogs

Doodledog just because the Highway Code clearly states that 'You must not cycle on a pavement'. doesn't mean that people do not do it.

I know . Hence my posts on the subject.

Incidentally, I am not at all against cyclists. I have already said that I think that there should be more lanes for them, at the expense of single-use cars, for instance. I would never abuse them (or anyone else) for any reason I can think of.

My beef, on a thread called 'Pavements for People?, ' is with cyclists who do not stick to the roads (where they can) and expect pedestrians, who already make way for cars, buses, prams, motor scooters, cars parked on the kerb, and everything else. Pedestrians are not harming the environment either, remember.

hurdygurdy I think your reply might have been aimed at me doodle rather than doodledog (sorry similar names) but if you read my other post you will see that I am talking only about ordinary pavements not shared ones. There are no shared pavements where I live but if there were I would fully expect cyclists to use them and would not not mind them ringing bells and I would willingly get out of the way. My comments relate only to pavements which are not shared.

Chestnut, do you have a legal reference for cars parking on pavements? I'm pretty certain the only place you are allowed to park on pavements are some parts of London.
If people were got their blessed cars off our pavements it would leave enough room for all to walk, children and elderly to cycle (not fitness riders), and keep the cars fully on the road where they act as natural road speed killers.

Ive got to laugh at the person complaining about aggression towards cyclists. I can assure you there are plenty aggressive cyclists out there who are so entitled it beggars belief. I wouldnt mind but they pay sod all of a contribution to anything. Ive had them abuse me when Ive told them its against the law to run red lights or cycle on the pavement, you get told to F off! I repeat, Im not moving for a cyclist on the pavement, if they dont like it they can lump it. I am not able to jump out of the way suddenly when they appear and on a pavement I shouldn't have to.

I've had a few frights too with cyclists suddenly coming up from behind. The worst thing is it makes me lose my balance and nearly tumble over.
I once shouted at one saying "why don't you get a bell to warn people?"
The reply "silly old bat!"
I always had a bell on my bike in my youth.

ps it might teach them a lesson if I did actually tumble over and knock them off their bike. God forbid though.