Remembering Auschwitz

The Poles suffered extensively during the war. About 6 million, approximately 18 per cent of the population were killed. 20,000 Polish Officers, academics and professionals were murdered at Katyn in 1940. No one can possibly imagine the horror of that time unless they were there. The Kosciuszko Squadron was formed by experienced pilots who managed to escape. They were credited at the time as being key to the defeat of the German air force.

After visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau extensively, absolutely drained, we came outside and sat on one of two benches waiting for the bus back to Krakow. Adjacent to us were an Italian couple to whom we spoke. Sitting next to them was a woman on her own. The Italians asked where she came from and when she said Germany, the latter got up and walked away. After seeing what we had that whole day, one could hardly blame them.

Thank you Lemon.

Baguette,
What a wonderful example of a truly Christian woman who tried to help. She then was forced to flee her own home to save her life and the lives of her children because if Poles were found to be hiding or helping Jews, they were executed. There were many such people, but the other side of the coin is that someone else obviously denounced her for hiding a Jewish person. Both sides of the coin, it’s complex, as I said before.

As will I Pogs.

Well said maddyone

It’s complex indeed, and like anything else in life, not black or white.
Thanks POGS I will look at youtube.

I don’t know but they probably were forced into helping out by the Germans occupying Poland. You know, do this and that or your kids get shot. My grandmother hid a Jewish man in her house. One day when she was out the Germans came round and found him. She was warned by neighbours to stay away otherwise she would be shot too. She grabbed my mum and aunt from school and ran away. It was a close call. There were many such occasions but I expect it was more stressful for the people living by the camps.

Oh without any doubt Trisher, there were truly heroic Poles, Germans, and indeed heroic behaviour in every single occupied country. There is no argument about that.
The Warsaw Rising Museum is a testament to the heroics of the people of Warsaw. I visited it when it was fairly newly opened a few years ago. It is a very good museum, I recommend it to anyone travelling to Warsaw.
The fact is that during WW2, there were heroic Poles who resisted and who helped the Jewish people, many who took in Jewish children and cared for them as their own, and Poles who hated the Jews and denounced them, and yet others who simply turned away from fear, good people who were too terrified to help.
It is complex.

*maddyone thank you for your account but it still fails to prove that many Poles cooperated enthusiastically with the Nazis. Of course some did. Of course some denounced Jews of course some profited from that. But to deny the absolute heroism of people who fought behind lines with home made weapons who tried to penetrate Auschwitz and who killed hundreds of Nazis whilst fighting against huge numbers with very small numbers is to deny those people their heritage. I haven't said anything about what went on in the camps or posted anything about the suffering of Jews. However read the links and recognise the herorism of some Poles.

Our guide at Auschwitz left us at the end of the tour with these words “remember this is what man did to man” that thought / horror will stay with me forever

I’m sorry Trisher, but you are only correct in part, whereas Lemon is completely correct. Like Lemon I have read a great deal on this subject, many, many narratives written by those who were persecuted. I have also visited five concentration camps due to my extensive travel in Europe, both Western and what was Eastern Europe.
The Poles, in common with the populations of other occupied countries, were considered to be inferior races by the Nazis. As such, they were expendable. They were used as slave labour, they were used to carry out killings, particularly the Ukrainians and the Lithuanians, and they were starved because the Nazis looted much food and everything of value from these peoples, much of which has never been recovered. If they were found to have broken the law, and there were many decrees and laws about not helping Jews, they were imprisoned, sent to concentration camps, or executed. Millions of non Jewish Europeans died in WW2. However six million Jews died because they were Jewish. Many people helped Jewish people on the run, hid them, fed them, gave them information. Some hid people for years, others for just one night. Others refused to help, and they turned away, from fear, or because they had been brainwashed into hating Jews. Yet others actively denounced Jewish people, they sold them to the Nazis for food or other rewards. Some in big cities such as Warsaw, bribed Jewish people in hiding until there was no money left, and then denounced them to the Germans.
Know your history thoroughly Trisher please.

annepl

Thank you.

I hope those who did not have the opportunity to watch the full proceedings from Auschwitz Camp on Monday can find the time to go on to you tube and listen to Marian Turski and the other excellent speeches which were not trying to point score, wanting revenge but asking only for the World to ' Never Forget ' and ' Not to be Indifferent '.

Their quiet humility in the face of such personal suffering was humbling to watch and listen to.

Why is it that some people on here constantly talk down this country and find absolutely nothing good to say about it, whereas other countries are somehow excused appalling behaviour (Vichy France) and are by comparison to us beacons of humanity when they clearly were not. This country was not monstrous during the war, our brave service men and woman defied hell itself to keep us safe and to free Europe from a worse hell. Our government made mistakes
of course, it did its best, but no, everything is negative! Can no one give us any credit for anything? As for me, I'm eternally grateful to have been born in this 'deadful' country and not occupied Europe! How lucky was that!

True Alexa for all of us.
Pogs thank you for your post.

Unless I do something other than wringing my hands and complaining about the evil I am a bystander.

The largest resistance group in Nazi occupied Europe shouldn't be forgotten or disregarded Lemon you may regard it as a personal spat I regard it as giving proper acknowledgement to those who fought on despite being out numbered. historycollection.co/facts-prove-just-hard-polish-resistance-fought-world-war-ii/2/
Including incidently a Pole who infiltrated Auschwitz tried to start a rebellion and escaped to say what was happening.

Indeed they were Lemon! After the war survivors would go back to their original countries only to be driven out again by countrymen who had taken over their homes,! The country had been purged of Jews and they were determined to keep it that way.

trisher.....read Jabberwock’s post above....Poland was much the same.I do not need to ‘admit’ anything, having read quite a lot on this subject, many were enthusiastic.After the war, Poland naturally wanted this aspect to be swept under the carpet.
Now, please stop trying to turn the thread into a personal spat.

They do say (re: history) First time tragedy - second time Farce. But is it farce that so much of the attitudes regarding Jews is now in force in UK with people of the Islamic faith?? Families drown at sea, the call is to send 'back' any that may make it here!! How many people in England at present would be quite content to see Concentration Camps being built for these refugees and (horrible thought) would even go along with a carefully orchestrated extermination programme??

lemongrove all you had to do was admit it wasn't many and most weren't enthusiastic. I've posted about one book and indeed I think the story of the Ravensbruck Rabbits and their survival is a great story of women's solidarity, which is of course always under remembered. But the opposiion to the Nazis and the persecution people suffered often because of their poltical persuasions is somethng I have investigated. It's a pity you can't say the same.

Lots of European (Eastern) countries were deeply antisemitic before the war, Russia in particular, and many people were only too happy to hand Jews over to the Nazis. Lithuanians joined execution squads with enthusiasm as did many others,it wasn't just Germans who behaved atrociously. As for betraying Poland ? What else could we have realistically done? take on Stalin and drive back the Russians? on our own of course don't think America or France or anyone else would have been up for WW3! This country was in ruins, bankrupt, heavily in debt and completely on it's knees, food being airlifted to Holland in particular as the Dutch were literally starving owing to the slash,steal or burn policy of the retreating Germans. Yes,we did that! My mother was a war widow, my uncle in France, my 2nd cousin killed in North Africa so we certainly didn't want any more death in our family.

Rowantree ...that was a rotten experience for you, when you wanted quiet and peace.I have heard that the chattering groups of people are becoming more and more common, when you would expect a hushed and dignified ( nay, horrified) reaction.

I suggest that it’s you that needs to go back and read my posts trisher...it’s simply untrue to say as you have that I ‘seem to say all Poles were anti- Semitic’.
You have read one book on the subject and that seems to have coloured your views entirely.Some were and behaved badly and others didn’t.
Let’s allow the thread to continue and if necessary, agree to disagree.

I believe that the Allies did know what was happening...In December 1942, Anthony Eden told the British parliament, in a statement on behalf of the UK, the US and the Soviet governments, that the Nazis were in the process of exterminating the Jews. Eden said that a similar statement was also being read out in Moscow and Washington at the same time.
“The German authorities, not content with denying to persons of Jewish race in all the territories over which their barbarous rule extends, the most elementary human rights, are now carrying into effect Hitler’s oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people,” In March 1943, the Archbishop of Canterbury William Temple, head of the Church of England, pleaded with the British government to accept Jewish refugees who were in danger of being massacred. There is other proof that the Allies knew the extent of the Holocaust already in 1942. Again, the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial states in a report to the UN that “During 1942, reports of a Nazi plan to murder all the Jews – including details on methods, numbers, and locations – reached Allied and neutral leaders from many sources.”
Perhaps more could have been done in terms of accepting refugees at the time (30's)?

Thank you for the information on Neuengamme Tickingbird.
I am shocked to hear some of the comments you have written about. How could anyone think the Holocaust should be forgotten?
I can't bear to read about the horrific experiments conducted by evil men and yet people had to suffer them.
Rowantree, I’m so, so sorry to hear about your grandparents.
I'm sure we could have taken more Jews, I don't know why we didn't.

We all know there are a lot of people especially innocent children suffering in many countries at the minute, and that it’s wrong to ignore it. And yet that's what's happening.
I don’t know how to make a big difference, Alexa. We can speak out in support of present day refugees, write letters and support Amnesty International. It is worth doing.
And we can lead by example in our own country and love our neighbour as Maddyone reminds us. Small steps help.

Iam64 read lemongrove's posts. She seems to think all Poles were anti-semitic and cooperated. They had the largest resistance group and were imprisoned but apparently that does not count. The Polish Free Forces have been acknowledged I agree. I just mentioned them because it was another way of resisting, and there was resistance.