Remembering Auschwitz

Indeed they were Lemon! After the war survivors would go back to their original countries only to be driven out again by countrymen who had taken over their homes,! The country had been purged of Jews and they were determined to keep it that way.

The largest resistance group in Nazi occupied Europe shouldn't be forgotten or disregarded Lemon you may regard it as a personal spat I regard it as giving proper acknowledgement to those who fought on despite being out numbered. historycollection.co/facts-prove-just-hard-polish-resistance-fought-world-war-ii/2/
Including incidently a Pole who infiltrated Auschwitz tried to start a rebellion and escaped to say what was happening.

Unless I do something other than wringing my hands and complaining about the evil I am a bystander.

True Alexa for all of us.
Pogs thank you for your post.

Why is it that some people on here constantly talk down this country and find absolutely nothing good to say about it, whereas other countries are somehow excused appalling behaviour (Vichy France) and are by comparison to us beacons of humanity when they clearly were not. This country was not monstrous during the war, our brave service men and woman defied hell itself to keep us safe and to free Europe from a worse hell. Our government made mistakes
of course, it did its best, but no, everything is negative! Can no one give us any credit for anything? As for me, I'm eternally grateful to have been born in this 'deadful' country and not occupied Europe! How lucky was that!

annepl

Thank you.

I hope those who did not have the opportunity to watch the full proceedings from Auschwitz Camp on Monday can find the time to go on to you tube and listen to Marian Turski and the other excellent speeches which were not trying to point score, wanting revenge but asking only for the World to ' Never Forget ' and ' Not to be Indifferent '.

Their quiet humility in the face of such personal suffering was humbling to watch and listen to.

I’m sorry Trisher, but you are only correct in part, whereas Lemon is completely correct. Like Lemon I have read a great deal on this subject, many, many narratives written by those who were persecuted. I have also visited five concentration camps due to my extensive travel in Europe, both Western and what was Eastern Europe.
The Poles, in common with the populations of other occupied countries, were considered to be inferior races by the Nazis. As such, they were expendable. They were used as slave labour, they were used to carry out killings, particularly the Ukrainians and the Lithuanians, and they were starved because the Nazis looted much food and everything of value from these peoples, much of which has never been recovered. If they were found to have broken the law, and there were many decrees and laws about not helping Jews, they were imprisoned, sent to concentration camps, or executed. Millions of non Jewish Europeans died in WW2. However six million Jews died because they were Jewish. Many people helped Jewish people on the run, hid them, fed them, gave them information. Some hid people for years, others for just one night. Others refused to help, and they turned away, from fear, or because they had been brainwashed into hating Jews. Yet others actively denounced Jewish people, they sold them to the Nazis for food or other rewards. Some in big cities such as Warsaw, bribed Jewish people in hiding until there was no money left, and then denounced them to the Germans.
Know your history thoroughly Trisher please.

Our guide at Auschwitz left us at the end of the tour with these words “remember this is what man did to man” that thought / horror will stay with me forever

*maddyone thank you for your account but it still fails to prove that many Poles cooperated enthusiastically with the Nazis. Of course some did. Of course some denounced Jews of course some profited from that. But to deny the absolute heroism of people who fought behind lines with home made weapons who tried to penetrate Auschwitz and who killed hundreds of Nazis whilst fighting against huge numbers with very small numbers is to deny those people their heritage. I haven't said anything about what went on in the camps or posted anything about the suffering of Jews. However read the links and recognise the herorism of some Poles.

Oh without any doubt Trisher, there were truly heroic Poles, Germans, and indeed heroic behaviour in every single occupied country. There is no argument about that.
The Warsaw Rising Museum is a testament to the heroics of the people of Warsaw. I visited it when it was fairly newly opened a few years ago. It is a very good museum, I recommend it to anyone travelling to Warsaw.
The fact is that during WW2, there were heroic Poles who resisted and who helped the Jewish people, many who took in Jewish children and cared for them as their own, and Poles who hated the Jews and denounced them, and yet others who simply turned away from fear, good people who were too terrified to help.
It is complex.

I don’t know but they probably were forced into helping out by the Germans occupying Poland. You know, do this and that or your kids get shot. My grandmother hid a Jewish man in her house. One day when she was out the Germans came round and found him. She was warned by neighbours to stay away otherwise she would be shot too. She grabbed my mum and aunt from school and ran away. It was a close call. There were many such occasions but I expect it was more stressful for the people living by the camps.

Well said maddyone

It’s complex indeed, and like anything else in life, not black or white.
Thanks POGS I will look at youtube.

As will I Pogs.

Thank you Lemon.

Baguette,
What a wonderful example of a truly Christian woman who tried to help. She then was forced to flee her own home to save her life and the lives of her children because if Poles were found to be hiding or helping Jews, they were executed. There were many such people, but the other side of the coin is that someone else obviously denounced her for hiding a Jewish person. Both sides of the coin, it’s complex, as I said before.

After visiting Auschwitz-Birkenau extensively, absolutely drained, we came outside and sat on one of two benches waiting for the bus back to Krakow. Adjacent to us were an Italian couple to whom we spoke. Sitting next to them was a woman on her own. The Italians asked where she came from and when she said Germany, the latter got up and walked away. After seeing what we had that whole day, one could hardly blame them.

The Poles suffered extensively during the war. About 6 million, approximately 18 per cent of the population were killed. 20,000 Polish Officers, academics and professionals were murdered at Katyn in 1940. No one can possibly imagine the horror of that time unless they were there. The Kosciuszko Squadron was formed by experienced pilots who managed to escape. They were credited at the time as being key to the defeat of the German air force.

You are missing the teaching opportunity here so, so completely with your self-assured belief that "I would never!"

"What would it take for an ordinary person to torture someone else – perhaps electrocute them, even to the point of (apparent) death? In possibly the most famous experiments in social psychology, the late Stanley Milgram of Yale University investigated the conditions under which ordinary people would be willing to obey instructions from an authority figure to electrocute another person. The story of these experiments has often been told, but it is worth describing them again because they continue, more than 40 years on and many successful replications later, to retain their capacity to shock the conscience and illustrate how humans will bend to the demands of authority."

aeon.co/essays/an-ordinary-person-becomes-a-torturer-with-surprising-ease

evianers I am surprised the Italians walked away; as allies of the Germans in WW2 their leader, the fascist Mussolini persecuted Jews.
They were not to blame for the sins of their ancestors but neither was the German woman.
She could have been a German Jew.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOUEC5YXV8U

This is why the holocaust happened.

Here's the full video experiment it is what we are all capable of...

Using 450 volts of electricity on humans but blaming someone else.

Perhaps it would be a little more respectful not to use the Holocaust as an opportunity for pointscoring on a forum.

Thank you Greymar

Italy was an ally of Germany from 1936-1943 . After they surrendered to the allies they declared war on Germany in March 1943. The Italians were made to pay dearly in atrocities by Germany for this defection, which could have been the reason for this Italian womans reaction!

All it took to collaborate was a group of like-minded people...

Ananimous, the Milgram experiment demonstrates how each ordinary nice woman or man is capable of atrocities, It's good you mentioned it.

Would you not agree being compliant with authority is the human fault that allows people to commit atrocities?

It remains to identify "authorities". And also to identify steps towards civil rights for all.

I have always been appalled by the Holocaust and have never understood that sort of hatred but Churchill himself thought the first concentration camps built to incarcerate the Boers were a good idea, and also participated enthusiastically in devastating attacks on local populations in Pakistan, Sudan and South Africa. As Home Secretary he unleashed the Black and Tans in Ireland, and several other horrific policies. So we as a nation also did despicable things, and there was no great outcry by the general population. So I believe that any of us are capable of becoming monsters and committing monstrous acts. I like to think I wouldn’t but if my children/ grandchildren were threatened if I didn’t comply maybe I would. I hope and pray that I never have to find out.