Robbie Williams and surrogacy

No doubt there are lots of rich people I disapprove of and lots of poor people I think would make bad parents as well. I can't stop the poor having children and I can't stop the rich buying them, all I can do is advocate that the best possible safeguards are put in place to protect the child and the mother. Because the only thing that disapproval and criticism will do is drive the whole process underground and send people to countries where women and babies can be bought more easily. Surrogacy is here it's been here for some time, let's stop condemning be open and honest about it and try to ensure it is done as well as possible.
And much the same could be said for prostitution. I'm old enough to remember the 60s and the idea that when women agreed to sex outside marriage prostitution would disappear. It hasn't. So stop criminalising it. Give the women the best protection and advice available and then see what happens. It can't be worse than what is happening to them now.

I totally agree with everything in your post trisher.

Agree trisher

It's another 'I can so I will'. Two natural pregnancies for the couple. Why did they need a surrogate? Unless of course medical issues. Even though, if nature dictated no more children why go to these lengths. Two children already yet they packaged up their sperm and egg to be grown by someone else then harvested like the latest crop. Perhaps a pregnancy would interfere in their busy lifestyle. Can't help but wonder when all the children are older the conversations they may have about the different method of arrival. Consideration is being given in the UK to surrogates receiving more than their 'expenses'. World gone mad.

Couldn’t disagree more trisher but that won’t surprise you ?

Aren’t we lucky to have been able to birth for ourselves
Bit dramatic OP
I don’t care for Robbie Williams at all but there are many thousands of ‘normal’ people who have patented this way
Is it my worse than growing a baby in a test tube?
As long as the child is created out of love then it will all work out
Concentrate on the kids that are born into violence and abuse, be outraged by that!

My younger daughter was offered surrogacy, she is not rich.

I am confused, did someone tie down the birth mother, forcibly impregnate her, keep her prisoner for 9 months and then abduct the baby? No the woman decided (as is her right) to carry and give birth to a child then give it away. Why is surrogacy any different than adoption? Only difference that I can see is that the birth mother already knows who the child is going to and possibly receives remuneration for her efforts.
Ok so Mr Williams may or may not be the nicest person on the planet but that really should only concern the woman carrying his child.
Surrogacy only exists while you have people willing to offer the service, and surely not all of them are poor vulnerable women.

It is not ok to create a situation where children are taken from their mother. It is not ok to sell children.

In surrogacy the baby is not taken from the birth mother
it is given by the birth mother .

The birth mother can decide not to give the baby , it is her
choice,

The child cant consent.

Agree Annie Is it not a service like any other ?

Galaxy a child does not consent to being born into a family where it is abused and treated cruelly, not really a valid point in my opinion.

How can surrogacy be the same as adoption? Unless I'm mistaken the child in adoption is already here. The surrogate situation is renting a womb and paying for it. If its so wonderful, why is it banned elsewhere? The 'it will drive it underground' argument could apply to badger baiting, drug taking, abortion, kidney selling and any number of hideous things which are morally wrong. I don't think we can say 'oh well it's going to happen, let's condone it'.

This are some unbelievably judgemental posts here.

They had problems conceiving together and carrying children, so if you would agree with IVF, why would you disapprove of surrogacy?
The child is biologically theirs and this woman has happily carried these children for them.
Many surrogates get immense joy from enabling a family to have a child - she’s hardly been tied down and forced to do this, not once, but twice. ?

We are not creating that situation though are we soda pop, and when we know about it we take action, in the best interest of the child. This is putting the needs/wishes of adults ahead of that.

Greymar I don't think surrogacy is morally wrong. You may do but you have no right to inflict those beliefs on other people. I also don't think drug taking is morally wrong. Do you drink coffee or alcohol? If so you are drug taking, just in a socialy acceptable way.

I have never been a fan of Robbie Williams, I find him thoroughly objectionable and self centred. However I understood that their decision to go through with surrogacy was based on the fact that Ayda was having trouble keeping a pregnancy going. The baby is supposedly their biological child and the surrogate was just an incubator. If she was happy to do this whether for financial gain or not is nobody's business but theirs. As long as they weren't breaking any laws good luck to them.

How can it be as traumatising as adoption? Not many babies are handed over to adopting parents at birth. The trauma comes from being cared for by the grieving birth mother for weeks then often spending time in nurseries or years in care. Such unkind comments.
I wonder if people speculated that we adopted because I was too lazy to carry another baby of my own, or thought it was unnatural or was the baby bought from the Adoption Agency or was it cruel to adopt a baby whose mother was too sick with drug dependency to look after it but as is natural would have liked to hold on to it!
If I could have rather had a surrogate hand over a newborn baby I would have jumped at the chance.
I absolutely do not believe that surrogacy and adoption result in the same trauma for the child or the new parents.

Women as incubators. Oh the progress we have made.

Minerva nobody is saying that adoption is cruel, they are saying that separation from the mother may have life long effects on the child. In the cases of adoption it is in the best interest of the child. I dont know if creating a situation like that is in the best interests.of the child.

Abortion supported regardless of the reason , a woman’s choice. Same for surrogate women, their choice .

I don’t know what to think about surrogacy and am fortunate to have never had to consider it for myself. I was very struck by one surrogacy birth I know of, though.

A married mother-of-two offered to have a baby for her sister who couldn’t conceive, using the sister’s husband’s sperm. I’m assuming it was done under medical circumstances, although I don’t know that for sure. When the baby arrived, it was handed over to the sister, who of course was delighted and thrilled with her baby.

However, for about three months after the baby was born, whenever the birth mother was visiting the sister (they lived nearby) the baby would turn towards the birth mother whenever she spoke, seemingly drawn to listening to her voice. It only happened with the birth mother, the baby didn’t do with anyone else. I found that quite disturbing.

Also, during the pregnancy, the husband of the birth mother found it increasingly difficult to see his wife growing big with another man’s baby. He’d had his doubts about the whole idea in the first place but it was sold to him as making someone else happy so he had acquiesced. About six months after the baby was born the marriage broke down completely. Maybe there were issues anyway, and this was the straw that broke the camels back, but it resulted in a fractured relationship and two other children losing their father, as well as having a half-sibling they couldn’t grow up with. That’s a heavy price to pay, I think.

maddyone I don't think Bibity is saying adoption is wrong she is saying that it causes trauma and all the research shows that this is the case. Babies who are adopted often have attachment issues and adopted parents are advised how to deal with it. That doesn't mean that the adoption is not the best scenario for the children that are adopted.
I don't know what I think about surrogacy I agree buying a baby is always wrong, and I could never carry a baby and then give it away. But I also have great sympathy for people who are not able to carry a child. That sympathy doesn't extend to Robbie Williams and his wife who already have children.

None of us know what difficulties they've had having children, apparently it is her egg and his
sperm so technically it is there own child, there last child was also carried by the same surrogate, I havent got a problem with it as long as the child is loved, that's all that matters

And I thought Gransnet would be a supportive forum! How naive of me.