Points system for immigrants from next year

A few predictable posts on here from those with no idea of reality for most people. You have to live near a farm to be able to pick fruit, not that convenient if you live in a conurbation, don't have the time or are not physically able, but never mind eh, as long as the Telegraph readers can pick up their blueberries from their nearest farm shop I am sure we will be fine. Large family run farm near me, last bastion within a residential area, grows lovely summer fruits, has an on site butcher as well which sells locally raised and slaughtered meat, and guess what? It is now sold for housing. They knew they wouldn't get staff to replace their regular Bulgarian pickers, so didn't bother to plant for this year or next and finally accepted the offer from the major house builder who has been pestering them for year.How many others will end up doing the same, or are the 8.4 million carers, students, early retired, disabled going to be drafted in? I am early retired and I am most definitely not going to take a job picking fruit, I didn't vote for this and would suggest that those who did should be the first to take these jobs. Anyone on here? Thought not.

No Granniepiper you are a self employed entreupeneur
Not sure if you employ others or not but I’d bet it was not your dream job as a kid.

Davidhs I am not bottom of the pile thank you very much, i gave up a career in S.E.N to start my own cleaning business. I retired in my mid 40's because i could afford to. My private pension wont kick in until 2023 util then i will live hand to mouth on the £1,200 a month i can spare from my savings. Poor poor me at the bottom of the pile with no mortgage to pay.

If every migrant can speak English, why do they make Australians take an expensive English examination before they are allowed to work for the NHS?

Riverwalk If every migrant can speak English,why do or Police Service, N.HS, Court Services spend a vast amount on t interpreters that are needed for E.u citizens that live here ?

I was replying to EllanVannin's post, GGMK3, it was a chatty reply. I wasn't replying to your post.

I don't know why the labour should be 'cheap' but I don't know what wages are for seasonal farm workers here in this country or what the conditions are for accommodation etc

That's not quite the same a running an economic operation is it Callistemon?

We have two choices. Cheap labour or investment. It is not in the hands of those who came to work here to make that choice they just want to eat and keep their families, but why does anyone want our cheapened labour to replace the external cheaply bought labour. It's not as if we have an unemployment problem - or so we are told.

I do appreciate we don't all have the same lived experience but I totally object to those with their heads in the sand lecturing others.

We used to take our children to the farm up the road to 'Pick your own' and it wasn't that long ago.

EllanVannin come to Wales where you can pick your own jostaberries, chuckleberries and tummelberries

And no, I don't know either!

I thought I heard on the news (but only half listening) that certain groups of workers will be exempt from these conditions.
Has anyone heard that?

Greta I remember the days when little boys wanted to be traindrivers and girls nurses.

Then it became footballers and pop stars, probably now reality TV stars

No, I mentioned it. You just thought along the same lines they did - bringing people down to your level by making them do farm work, so I compared them, EllanVannin

I rather think the persistent, peevish and irritating complaints about anyone who doesn't see life as the complainant does on GN - in this case the halcyon, far off days which never really happened, that is positioned somewhere in the 1950s - is far more predictable on GN.

So predictable GracesGranMK3 (rolls eyes ) but I didn't mention the Chinese Culture Revolution, did I ? You did, just to start something.
What's wrong with strolling along to your local farm anyway ?
Isn't it a way of teaching children where their food comes from and how it's harvested/ gathered ?
Have you never been to a farm to pick your own fruit ?

My brother and I used to go pea-picking to earn pocket money. Was that so bad ?

Gawd, what it is to be waited on hand and foot !!

Davidhs - Patel is a very agile speaker and did an excellent job of not answering Charlie Staites questions on BBC. She speaks of 8.5m “economically inactive” UK residents, that is over 10% of the population just how they are going to be made to work is going to be interesting

Yes - the choice of the term "economically inactive" is interesting as it refers to the number of 16 to 64 year olds who are neither working or unemployed. It includes
- students - around 2-3 million 16 to 22 year olds will be studying at school, college or University
- stay at home parents - who have chosen to care for their children at home
- those who are caring for elderly or disabled family members
- disabled and sick - both short or long term
- those who have taken early retirement

So how is it realistic to regard these groups as a work force?

I wonder how many brexit voters would qualify to move to the UK?

So everyone better be prepared to pay loads more for social care - one agency near me charges £17 per HALF hour - the workers don't get anything like that, so if you want to pay them decent wages then its the customer who will be paying eventually. As for care home fees - well they are obviously not charging enough. Meat eaters may also be in for a shock - slaughterhouses are almost exclusively staffed by Eastern Europeans and Spanish vets for some reason. so the pictures of terrified animals in the kill line might be even more graphic.

Those living near farms be prepared to pick your own fruit and veg. Why not? We had to do it in the '50s.

So we are to look forward to something akin to the re-education programme during the Chinese Cultural Revolution EllanVannin

Let’s face it nobody has any ambition to be a cleaner or a bin worker, those that do are at the bottom of the pile and can’t pay the rent any other way. There will always be the have nots who have to do that, manual labour and no more, the training is minimal, the work has to be done, migrants if needed.

Is it not the employers who want this 'cheap' Labour from abroad?
I thought this country had a minimum wage for everyone, by law. So how are the employers allowed to pay low wages to workers from abroad.
If employers paid the minimum wage, instead of breaking the law, we might have British people willing to do this work.

Fennel, I do agree with you. I detest this celebrity culture that we have created. The number of tv shows now featuring so called celebrities are staggering. One of my puils, a boy, once told me "I'm not going to do a rubbish job like you Miss because I'm going to be famous and earn lots of money".

If that is the attitude we have instilled in many of our youngster I don't think they will be interested in doing any kind of 'menial' jobs.

I think it is a good idea for companies to invest in training young people for work.
And pay them a decent wage.

regarding immigrants, I can say from experience that not all EU citizens had good English. I had carers form eastern europe that spoke not a word of English and other carers told me that there were many non english speakers.

Do you want to be old and needing care and helped by a carer that does not speak your language?

Otherwise the reason we "need" immigrant workers is the low wages they are paid and status for work like Carers. They are underpaid.
Pay them properly and you won't need to go abroad for help.

I know of a local Agency that uses foreign workers and exploits them. Makes them pay a lot of rent to share a room and more money for car insurance.
They are treated poorly too.

Much better to give carers a decent status and a fair wage.

When I worked in a hotel a few years ago, apart from Clerical staff all vacancies were advertised with a foreign agency.
No vacancies were advertised in the U.K. so all staff came from the EU. By the time the fees were paid plus the workers board and lodgings it would have been cheaper to recruit local people who went home every night.
I think it’s a matter of control, if you control where staff sleep and eat they have to do as they are told for lower wages or be sent home ( at their own cost). Many of them were just out of school, no or very little English.

Hopefully that will now stop.

Skilled workers, we do undervalue care workers in particular but the “skill level” is very basic. A woman I know has never worked and claimed benefits up till now. This year her youngest child is 16 and she has had to start care work, the training amounted to 6 days induction course.

Delusions of grandeur !

Those living near farms be prepared to pick your own fruit and veg. Why not ? We had to do it in the 50's.

Fennel, I agree with you. Nobody will get out of bed for less than 3 or £400 a week---for doing very little !!

Australia has had a similar points system for many years.
Probably other countries too.
But perhaps they haven't got the situation as it is here, where
many young British people refuse to do what they see as demeaning jobs. you need to go to Uni, get a degree, then accept nothing less than a top job in Finance or Internet technology.
Or being a Celeb on TV or the social media.
I think the idea of a job as a footballer in the Premier League may have lost its charm lately.
I was very shocked recently when talking to a younger female friend about their family's financial problems . I suggested she apply for a job as a cashier in a store I knew needed one. She said no - "My children would be so ashamed of me!"
If I was 20 years younger I would apply for that job.
I'll probably get shouted down on this.

Kandisnsky, explain just how you know so much about the differences in employment between now and 45+ years ago, other than what you have read in certain newspapers of course? Also, can I just point out that there are rules and regulations on working hours, minimum wages etc., and if the labour from EU was 'cheap' that can only be because employers were breaking the law. A care worker or waiter should be paid the same whether they were born in Bolton or Bulgaria.