What can we agree on?

grannyactivist I agree with you, and probably the majority of people would say they agree with those ideas.

The sticking point, though, is that some who agree in theory then start to add all sorts of caveats as to who is deserving of assistance - whether they have brought misfortune on themselves, etc. etc. Additionally, all sorts of assumptions (and judgments) start to be made as to how much money people receive in benefit payments, how the money is spent, etc, etc.

Inevitably there are those who proclaim "I've worked hard for what I have and why should I have to subsidise those who haven't". There seems to be an innate mindset within some people that those who fall upon hard times are predominantly idlers and ne'er do wells who have only themselves to blame.

grannyactivist
There cannot be many people who would disagree with the points you have made in your OP.

Perhaps the main differences lie in the way that posters, of whatever political persuasion, think these problems should be addressed.

Thank you for your responses everyone.

The charity I set up has a remit to assist rough sleepers and people whose housing situation is ‘vulnerable’. I have two co-workers, both retired; one was a solicitor and the other a police superintendent, I’m a retired social worker/teacher. We all came to the work with a lifeview shaped by our own (differing) experience and understanding. It didn’t matter to me that both sat elsewhere on the political spectrum to me - only that we could find common ground in helping people. And we have done exactly that.

On our management committee we have ex-council leaders from both the Conservative and the Labour Party. They are warm, compassionate, kindly people and are both working very hard to find ways of addressing the issues that leave people homeless or vulnerably housed.

I'll leave you all to your back patting...

I think it’s an excellent post. I have friends from almost every point on the political spectrum and we do debate but with mutual respect. One thing life, and particularly my job has taught me is that everyone. has their story and that story informs how they think and behave.
Equally our efforts may not change the world but we have to try. Doing nothing is defeatist but what we do and say should be tempered with kindness and respect for differing opinions and values. In doing so you may change people’s way of thinking. You catch more flies with honey.

grannyactivist, I think the point of the excerpt of the article points to the crux: experiencing a sense of being separate-

Be it being separate from homeless people, from people who choose to vehemently disagree or believing that we must agree with some things otherwise we're separated in some way since we don't agree, collectively or otherwise-

Living in poverty can involve a lot of hard work, the type of work that not everyone readily understands but is capable of understanding through empathy and compassion-

Below is an excerpt from an article in the Huffpost:

"While engaging a homeless person, you can still hold onto a sense of separation. If you enter a soup kitchen, you will see things that you typically do not see: people who haven’t showered for days or men who are drunk and arguing with each other at 6 a.m. If you get wrapped up in thinking, “All men should be clean and sober and polite” or, “Society should offer jobs and rehab for these men,” you will get overwhelmed, drowning in sadness or anger. Your thoughts about how the world should be are separating you from the experience of what is in front of you.

But what happens if you sit down next to one of the men and engage openly in conversation? You may find that the man could help you with your calculus homework because he has a Ph.D. in mathematics. He may offer some valuable insight regarding your interactions with your parents. He may share his happiness about discovering a new Jazz musician or his sadness because a friend just died of AIDS."

The six points are valid but my sticking point is that even if we agree with the list it will not mean much if our leaders have their own agenda and that agenda does not agree.

I don't think, to quote: "... it is more fun to dwell pessimistically on differences than to celebrate common aims and work together to achieve them." Many people are neither pessimists or optimists; they are realists.

Grannyactivist, I'm sure your charity work is both needed and valued.

Agree with everything that the OP says. I think that if a post is unnecessarily argumentative or personal it's best to move on and ignore it. You can't have a row with yourself!

I think it’s a great OP GA and there really isn’t any reason for it to descend into a bunfight. We should all be mindful of others who, for whatever reason, are less well off either financially, physically or mentally. Perhaps, if one can’t find anything positive to say better to move on.

I have to say thanks to people like grannyactivist who help the homeless. I agree with all the points made.

The sort of post I expect from you ga and I applaud it. Thank you. I agree with all your points.

Elegran, well said.

I think we agree on your points, grannyactivist, though there may well be future posts cavilling at the optimism of trying to make a difference - for some it is more fun to dwell pessimistically on differences than to celebrate common aims and work together to achieve them.

Live and let live, life is short.

(@MaisieD Looking at your list, grannyactivist I'm minded of part of a comment made to me on twitter only yesterday:

*It just blows my mind the mental gymnastics people will go through...*)

This is a great example:-

Zero to do with grannyactivist's thread post.

Another mental summersault...

If you look hard enough for offense, you shall certainly find some.

I agree grannyactivist. Thank you for the post.

That people (almost anyone) can be drawn into poverty

lead balloon anyone?

Anyway, I’m supposed to have gone

But that’s not the point is it ?

Suzie But it is true that some people just are angry and bitter, and find a reason to sneer about anything at all. That is also true in real life, where people speak face-to-face, so even more so on an anonymous online site.

grannyactivist
I agree.
It's heartening to read a thread such as this on GN.

Time for truces, respect, and an understanding that the written word is often given far too an intense interpretation.

Some have admitted their hostility is medically linked, so I am wary of communicating with them.

You see granny the post by rose is exactly what I mean by starting a bunfight. She seems to think that she can just label people as angry and bitter and doubts they have any friends. This thread is just a complete and utter non starter. I think I’ll go and take my ? with me.

I am of the opinion that there are a few members that just like to disagree ,they are never positive or light hearted.I assume they are angry bitter people in life and doubt they have any friends.

Be interesting to see how they can disagree with the points you have made.

I tried once to debate the difference between justice, morality and the law. It didn’t get far.

I certainly agree with all your points Grannyactivist but am not sure that everyone does.