Chaos when its all over?

Well that’s rubbish, thank you JaneA I hadn’t realised just what he said . When my DH was in a small 7 bay ICU last year the doctors reviewed everyone, everyday and difficult , heartbreaking decisions were made. None were based on age or my DH would’ve been first to go . Sorry to be so blunt but I lived in fear of being “taken into the little room” for fear of what was coming next .

Bring it on. Let’s all get through this and celebrate when it’s all over. We have to be optimistic. We’ve got used to traffic jams and heavy traffic, and we will again. In the meantime, enjoy the peace and the drop in pollution.

The NHS is the biggest employer in Europe! Never mind the UK

The vast majority of its employees rely on 2nd incomes either from partners or tax credits or other sources, just to get by!
They will not easily absorb the hit. They wont make ends meet if their household income drops much further

This is the case for huge huge numbers of people

Gilly yes I know that doctors make decisions based on clinical need & outcomes, thank goodness. But Toby Young and others have suggested that age should be the main criterion.

DD2 was born severely jaundiced due to a blood group incompatibility. She was kept in ICU for 5 days, naked, in an artificial sunlight machine/cot, only coming out 6 times a day for me to feed her. During these feeding times a baby boy was popped into the sunlight cot, but back to an ordinary cot when DD's feeding & washing was done. When I asked why he was only getting these short boosts I was told that they only had one machine and as the baby boy was unlikely to survive, priority was given to my DD who would survive with this treatment.

And sorry, I am also upset and angry with those on this site who only a few weeks ago argued with those who were concerned about Corona. Do you recall the “it’s just a virus” “what is all the fuss about?” posts, the we oldies have been through worse posts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Absolutely nobody is admitting to having had those views now.
Suddenly everyone reackons they "knew" this would happen since January, and have all been social distancing / isolation experts since then (just see the brits stuck abroad thread).

Yet just over 2 weeks ago posts were different, hairdressers and cafes were full.... how? If everyone was an expert with a crystal ball all along?

Let me put this bluntly. The economy is not driven by those who have the least money. It is driven by those who have the money to provide work for the less well off.

1 in 5 people in the UK currently live in poverty, or put it the other way, 4 out of 5 people do not live in poverty. Even if that number doubles during the current crisis and I doubt it will go that high, the majority will still not be in poverty.

When the crisis ends many of those first back in work will be those in the poorest paid jobs in catering, leisure industries and retail.

Many of those working from home on full pay will have been saving money by having no transport costs, purchasing coffees, lunches etc. Just because a family has 2 wage owners and in these liberated days, this applies to almost any family it does not necessarily follow that the family is dependent on the second income to save it from starvation. There are plenty of very comfortably off 2 income families, both working currently from home.

Yes, there will be economic disruption after this crisis ends, but I do not see it being catastrophic or even long term. There will be winners and losers, there always is, and I do think there will be structural changes in the economy over the next 5 years as the full force of the accelerated development of digital economy during the crisis is developed further.

But overall I think it will have far less effect on the economy than the 2008 financial crisis.

My thoughts about this...hmmm. Life won't be the same again. Our values will have been changed. We will appreciate the smaller things. We will discard many views we had. Life will become simpler because we will have learnt many lessons. We will smile more. Sending peace x

The future is so unknown. Everyone and everything will be affected. All plans and hopes and different fears. My daughter is ill in bed with Covid, 3 days in. As a senior teacher she cared for health workers children. She is not very well anyway having had a number of infections over the winter, and a scary minor op to her mouth as well. I am worried. And sorry, I am also upset and angry with those on this site who only a few weeks ago argued with those who were concerned about Corona. Do you recall the “it’s just a virus” “what is all the fuss about?” posts, the we oldies have been through worse posts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

But it doesn’t really work like that in IC JaneA. Doctors make difficult decisions every day and I can’t see this situation making any difference . Doctors will still assess each patient as an individual based on their chances of full recovery and quality of life afterwards. They could be 20 or 70. I saw it every day when my DH was in ICU last year.

Toby Young is a not very bright self opinionated, entitled, privileged well connected twit ( see how polite I can be when I try?) I wouldn’t trust him to take my dog for a walk and I haven’t even got a dog?
Did anyone listen to Michael Sandel this morning on R4 on the ethics of the pandemic? Interesting discussion on who gets the ventilator amongst other issues
PS I forgot that TY is also a well documented misogynist ?

Toby Young makes his living out of his notoriety. If he doesn't say something offensive we may all forget who is he and no one will be interested in him.

Artdecogran….don't say such things about yourself. You have as much right to food, healthcare etc as the next person. You have paid your dues during your life. If we, older people, hadn't paid our dues when we were young then the NHS and welfare state wouldn't be here now and young people would be in an even greater mess.

I'm looking forward to the end of lockdown. People are struggling financially and the longer it lasts the worse it will be. Our best hope is to stay in lockdown as long as we need to but no longer and then get as many people as possible back to work even if that means creating jobs and increasing taxes to pay for them. The more people we can get back to earning the quicker they'll be in the position to spend again and in capitalist society we need people to spend.

We also need to get our children and young people back into education. The curriculum will have to be adjusted to take into account the time they've had off and the fact that many will slip back due to lack of educational input.

What a mean thing to say.

Its not mean. This is the ONLY place Ive seen or heard people planning all the fun they'll have spending money again after the restrictions are lifted. Every where else people are worrying about how they'll pay the bills!

And the speculation on here that NHS workers will be well off is SO detatched from reality

granny23 I agree, in some ways the outbreak has fuelled the flames of the inter-generational conflict that some, like Toby Young, are so keen to keep going.

It’s one thing if an elderly person who is in possession of all their faculties, and can give valid consent, declines treatment.
It’s quite another if someone else makes that decision for them.

Artdecogran you might agree with Toby Young.

POLITICAL commentator Toby Young has been branded “heartless” after claiming spending cash on saving elderly people from the coronavirus pandemic is “irresponsible”

Writing in The Critic Mag, Young was critical of the UK Government’s willingness to spend cash to limit the effects of the outbreak. Young wrote: “Like a growing number of people, I’m beginning to suspect the Government has overreacted to the coronavirus crisis. I’m not talking about the cost to our liberty, although that’s worrying, but the economic cost.
“Even if we accept the statistical modelling of Dr Neil Ferguson’s team at Imperial College, which I’ll come to in a minute, spending £350 billion to prolong the lives of a few hundred thousand mostly elderly people is an irresponsible use of taxpayer’s money.”

notanan The only people not dreading what comes next financially are the retired

What a mean thing to say.
Some of us are not as self-centred as you imply and do have the imagination to envisage what this will mean for younger generations & the impact it’s going to have on education, job opportunities & prospects, & financial security for our children and grandchildren.

What is the point of surviving when the future is going to be such a struggle and so bleak. I feel like there’s no point going on after the future predictions on here. I’m not a productive member of society anymore and I feel I’m taking up food, medicines, and possibly a ventilator for more useful people.

Other NHS workers are renting second homes because they have vulnerable household members.

There really are no winners.

The only people not dreading what comes next financially are the retired.

Hairdresser, chiropodist and dentist for me!!!!

Not to put too fine a point on it david but some of them won’t be going anywhere because they will be dead.

Those working for the NHS and care industry will be the first to be able to afford a well earned holiday they are working every hour they are able.

No they wont. Many of them have lost their household's other income. Sickness rates are through the roof so those people are losing out on the over time they usually rely on to get by.

Those working for the NHS and care industry will be the first to be able to afford a well earned holiday they are working every hour they are able.

janeainsworth In some parts of China, those disgusting markets are open again. I saw a horrific video on Facebook the other day.

Why all this talk of 'getting back to normal'? 'Normal' was the cause of it.

With all due respect, Hetty, it wasn't.
The cause of it was the failure of the Chinese government (nb government not people) to learn from the SARS outbreak of 2002 and to implement strict controls of the sale of wild animals in their food markets.

Then when Dr Li Wenliang suspected the presence of a new virus which would have devastating consequences if it was allowed to spread unchecked, not only did the authorities not believe him, but they suppressed the information and accused him of making false comments that 'severely disturbed the social order'.

We all know what happened next.

Lots of NHS staff are part of a 2 income household so they're by no means exempt from the upcoming hardship. A lot of them wont make ends meet when they go down to one income.

There are already "victims" of this in the NHS and I dont mean the ones that catch CV19 I mean the ones suffering burn out and PTSD

None of the new recruits to the NHS or food services that Ive seen are being offered permanant contracts. These are short term measures not long term prospects.