Boris..intensive care..

I haven't read the whole thread but I think they are doing a 'clap for Boris' at 8pm tonight (Tuesday). Whatever your politics, he is the leader of our country and every country needs a leader.

Would you have clapped for Corbyn had the GE gone the other way?

Thank you notanan This man has stated that his brother’s life was expendable because he wasn’t economically viable

Does it seem likely that front line doctors would have the time or the will right now to consider such a thing?

Unfortunately DS brings with it an increased risk of heart problems, diabetes, challenging airways etc..
All of these co morbidities need to be considered for anyone, DS or no. As well as how far organ failure has progressed. Someone who is in kidney heart AND breathing failure with CV is going to have different decisions made about them than someone who just need more oxygen than they can get on a ward

I'm not sure how many are dying at home.

Not having invasive procedures doesn't mean you have to stay home.

I think its silly to clap. I'm sure Boris would think so too.

And how about those who are dying at home? Many of these from Corvid-like symptoms, untested and untreated. Like Harry from Nottingham their relatives might want an explanation.

My neighbours family tried really, really hard to get the dnr removed from his records, but it stood, because his health was so very poor.

Thank you notanan This man has stated that his brother’s life was expendable because he wasn’t economically viable or words to that effect. Either way it is no excuse to be using his death to continue his lefty rantings.

Eglantine Thank you for your kind words and my flowers. Bless you x

Same as you cant demand open heart surgery or any other invasive medical proceedure that your Drs dont think will work on you.

You can chose to decline to BE rescusitated

But you cant demand to be if its not medically indicated.

Covid aside, a DNR is a medical decision. You cant actually decline a DNR if drs decide not to offer it as a treatment option.

craftone I meant hopefully it was not by a ventilator. Draw your horns in.

I am not clapping for Boris Johnson!

It is actually "best practice" anyway. Whether or not care would be "escalated" if needed should be planned for all patients, but too often these decisions are made too late or at the last minute.

Hospitals are actively avoiding these scenarios and making sure the decisions are made before people are gasping for their last breath. So that either ITU or symptom relief/palliative care can be in place in a timely manner

If the hospital said they had put DNR on him without discussion or agreement there has to be a reason for this.

It is the standard pathway for all CV admissions.
Decisions are made (and reviewed daily) whether or not someone would be a ventillation/resuscitation candidate IF they deteriorate. It is made in advance so that staff can act quickly if it happens. They are not waiting until family can be reached but family are being informed as soon as possible.

This is the standard covid care you get whether you are the PM or joe blogs or someone with DS

I haven't read the whole thread but I think they are doing a 'clap for Boris' at 8pm tonight (Tuesday). Whatever your politics, he is the leader of our country and every country needs a leader.

I really wish him well. He didn't look well when he was on tv recently.

Eglantine21 it doesn't Say anyone said “No” to anyone.
I think you may have misread something.

I was only trying to clear up the idea that ventilators were not available!
I think if you want the minutiae of the situation maybe contact Harry and ask him rather than say “it was not like that”.

I was not defending or decrying anything- just putting the available info out there.

Whitewavemark2 - so you're saying that China can be excused for letting the genie out of the bottle because of various reasons including Chinese New Year. It was just too difficult to do the right thing. Well then, I suppose we should forgive them for infecting the whole planet and bringing down every economy on earth.

I’m so sorry to hear that tickingbird. My sister was also recently removed from life support. It is a very difficult time for a family?

chestnut a cordon sanitiarewas place around Wuhan and Hubei Provence. Because of Chinese New Year seeding took place throughout. China and the rest of the world.

Graded self quarantine was imposed through the entirety of China Because of this strict lockdown and Chinese compliance, transmission has gradually faded away. Not one death was recorded yesterday.

Give the facts, and the circumstances, it is clear that it would be totally impossible to contain the virus. Firstly China was in the middle of the seasonal flu period, and respiratory disease is not uncommon then, and secondly because of the way the local government is organised and controlled, it was inevitable imo that this was going to happen.

If the hospital said they had put DNR on him without discussion or agreement there has to be a reason for this. I’m sorry that this man lost his life but there is definitely more to this story. It sounds as though this was a medical decision and certainly not one caused by Tory cuts. I do know that presently the ICU at QMC are not at capacity. My brother died in December in the ICU in QMC. He was taken off a ventilator after being on one for over a week. We were all informed beforehand in person. Obviously, because of this virus patients can’t have family present but doctors don’t just allow people to die at 54 if they can save them.

Calender37 - a sensible and thoughtful post. ?

So right there chestnut

Notspaghetti, he can say whatever he likes, whatever serves his purpose. Nobody can say no to him, it was not like that.

The medical staff involved cannot say anything.

Now, our lovely government ministers are beginning to play the 'It's all his fault Miss!' blame game against the Civil Service and NHS England - disgraceful!

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/06/ministers-seeking-to-smear-civil-servants-over-coronavirus-handling