Boris..intensive care..

When someone is suffering grief that is no excuse to attack a seriously ill person who is fighting for their life and has family who are worried sick.

This.

If I lived in Nottingham, and was either suffering with the virus or had a loved one with it; and I'd read Harry Paterson's article, I'd be panicking like hell today. Unless it can be 100% proven that there were no ventilators available, it's just an alarmist complaint from a grieving relative.

My politics aren’t perhaps what you think they are but I do have a passion for truth

trisher No money for the NHS, not enough staff, not enough equipment, not enough beds because of Tory cuts
Find me a country that has enough of all these things to deal with a pandemic. I think we are dealing with this as well as anyone else and better than many. Most or all countries are struggling to cope, some are in dire straits but we never hear about them.

notanan2 has posted lots of information about ventilators and how many there are, but even she can't swear that all the available ventilators were in use at the time of the death, nor can she prove that this man wasn't denied one because she just doesn't know. I realise that it makes everyone who has supported Johnson feel better about deaths if they can discredit what is a hearfelt and personal post, but really it's just trying to pretend that everything is all right when it obviously isn't.

trisher can I just point out that she says when they are needed.

She then goes on to say they are currently implementing this because Queens is expecting a rise in numbers over the next three to four weeks.

There is no current failure of oxygen supply.

As for “well it’s just a piece of prose......”

(Maskerading as fact)

Apologies maddyone I thought it was you who posted a link and the authors thoughts on the army since conscription ended.

Whether there are ventilators available now or not, there won't be enough if we see a steep rise in the number of very sick people. Italy, Spain and now New York has had to make agonising decisions about who lives and who dies. In some cases people who are recovering have been taken off ventilators because they are needed for people with a better long term prognosis. In other words, the healthy rather than those with medical conditions, the young rather than the old. Hence the life and death guidelines sent out to doctors by the NHS. It is that brutal.

Unless every report is false, this government has let opportunities to acquire ventilators slip through their fingers. Similarly, the herd immunity theory caused a delay in locking down, which resulted in a greater opportunity for the virus to spread. We might not have needed so many ventilators if it hadn't been for that delay. However much one hopes for Boris's recovery, there is no denying his government's responsibility for these mistakes.

Let's hope desperately that social distancing works enough to spare us the onslaught of cases seen elsewhere. If not, there may be considerably less grans around to chat, if and when this is all over.

What facts are those callistemon?

Someone upthread has posted the facts.
We may never know the truth about this man's death, but whatever it was, it is extremely sad indeed.

A youngish man was on TV at lunchtime who had the virus and was in ICU where doctors told him to record his last farewells.
He did recover but is still feeling the effects many weeks later.

MARYXYX Cath calderwood was NOT the Scottish HEALTH MINISTER ,she wa Chief MEDICAL officer ..no political affiliation or ideology as far as I can find.She was appointed by the Scottish office which you might not know is the Westminster run part of the Scottish government her boss would be Allister Jack who has no knowledge of whats going on in Scotland and Lesley Evans .I have repeated this several times for people who think Scotland is devolved therefor have full power over everything...sadly not so

It is Chestnut if you feel that person has contributed to your loved one's death. How many times have we seen calls for the death penalty for murderers on GN? And those from people who had no experience of the subject.
No money for the NHS, not enough staff, not enough equipment, not enough beds because of Tory cuts and you think he should sympathise with someone who caused all that?

There comes a point when someone is just too poorly to respond to intervention.
That has always been so.

callistemon that is an interesting point of view. So are you saying his feelings are disingenuous or the factual bits?

If it is a bit of prose as many have suggested it is that aims to show how grief feels to some then there are no “facts”

If it is factual as the man himself sees it, then we can’t know the truth. We may surmise about the truth but not know the truth.

He probably feels like he lost someone he loved dearly because of the actions of the Tories but he made it clear he wishes that person no ill - grief can make us hit out at those we feel have let us down.

Whens someone is suffering grief that is no excuse to attack a seriously ill person who is fighting for their life and has family who are worried sick.

The English Prime Minister

British Prime Minister.

I think the points about grief causing us to lash out are very relevant. I know someone who had to deal with very angry relatives of a person who was on life support who couldn’t accept that their parent couldn’t have a brain transplant to keep them alive. In normal circumstances I’m sure they would have understood why that wasn’t possible but in the midst of terrible grief we do say things we might not normally, or in a way that doesn’t come across very well.

So I Googled Nottingham hospitals and ventilators and came up with a statement from the Chief executive on 1st April and found this
we already have 200 ventilators because we were about to start a replacement programme. To support their use our Estates Team have been looking at how we can pipe oxygen to those ventilators when we need them. Of course, staff are being trained to work in a critical care environment to build up the teams working in those areas.
So no shortage of ventilators but no oxygen to use them and probably not enough staff to deal with patients. It is never as simple as some like to pretend. And he may well have needed a ventilator and not got one.

notanan
I agree

The journalist may not be posting fake news but it is disingenuous and misleading.

I feel sorry for those who are fighting this or have lost loved ones and yes, they may look for a scapegoat - but how did this man's brother catch this? Was he a frontline worker, or did he or someone close ignore the rules?
If equipment was available why did they not use it? There are many questions.

No government could be prepared for something like this.

notanan2
I hope everyone is reading and absorbing your posts on this thread. Every time you post you are talking common sense and facts. Thank you.

It's deliberately misleading as far as I'm concerned.

themselves,!

notanan such a shame to shoot the messanger I always feel.

If the author is wrong, simply provide evidence of his factual inaccuracy. But his feelings stand for the self.

Beside which it isnt the actual ventillators we are risking running out of imminently, its the O2 that goes through them! And senior Drs/advisors are now admitting that they didnt properly consider this at the start of planning the crisis as its just not something that our hospitals usually runs out of so it didnt initially come to mind

The Scottish Health Minister ignores government instructions and is no longer Health Minister. The English Prime Minister ignores government health instructions and is in intensive care. Is this what they call "Leading by example"?

I’m sorry Grannygravy I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. I didn’t post a link, because I’m rubbish with that and can’t do it. Did I perhaps say something you’re referring to? I’m puzzled.