Boris..intensive care..

The anger is valid the problem is that it implies that ventillators are being rationed and reserved for the privilidged and that isnt true or helpful.
I dont blame the author I blame the people sharing it as "proof" of these "facts"

And so do we all gg13 you would be hard pushed to reach our age and not to have experienced devastating loss.

But I think what we can agree on is that grief takes many forms, this chap was describing one where he felt the need to lash out and find someone to blame. Not remotely unusual.

The fact that we may find the object of his vitriol as someone we admire and like and who is fighting his own fight at the moment should not make us want to stop this man from expressing his feelings, in fact we should encourage people to express themselves however they feel during this time of great stress. It gives us a greater empathy and understanding.

Whitewavemark2 unfortunately myself and my family are fully aware of and understand grief.

Even senior medical doctors struggle to have the words sink in and get the facts right when it is their own loved one dying!

gg13 if it indeed proves to be a piece of prose rather than a record of how a man felt at the loss of his brother, do you not think that the author was trying to reflect how he and many others would feel in their grief?

It is a picture and reaction of and to grief. A devastating loss that provoked anger and bewilderment. A need to lash out and find a scapegoat.

If you approach it with a critical eye rather than emotional reaction, you may find a greater understanding of how this man imagines what grief feels like. You may not agree but you may understand.

@maddyone

10 minutes

He is a journalist. He has very carefully written “There was no ventilator for Jas.” not there was no ventilator available for Jas.

He is able to write the story as he sees it. Medical staff cannot comment on individual cases and the decisions that were made.

What you can Google is the number of hospitalised cases in Nottingham, the number of CV deaths at that time and the number of ventilators available at Queens. And draw your own conclusions.

There is also another major hospital in Nottingham, 19 minutes away, with respiratory facilities.

notanan2 take a look at the authors twitter feed.

Really hoping that Boris will pull through.

My husband just came in and said "They're discussing how BJ is on the news. Who gives a sh**".
We don't all think the same. (I did remind him that Boris is a human being) .

Good points notanan

I would reserve judgement about whether or not the author believes it to be true & give them the benefit if the doubt. In distress, certain words can be clung onto and miss interpreted

If there was (?) not a ventilator available at one hospital he would have been transferred to the nearest facility which had one available, this is standard NHS procedure.

I am sorry but I am deeply suspicious of this "story"?, (Maddyone (?) posted a link on a deleted thread)

No.
He may have been told he was not going to be offered ventillation. But not because of "no ventillators"

It also isnt true that it was specific to that hospital as ventillator beds form a national pool

I think you have made a lot of excellent points Hawelka.

Good for you.

My brother, sadly, wasn’t lucky. Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham’s Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas. ‘Operation: Last Gasp’, right, Prime Minister?

Is this true or not?

Even the most sensible intelligent person wont hear everything correctly when its their loved ones lives being discussed.

They might have been told that a ventillator "wasnt an option" and their brains shut off at that point believing they were told there were no ventillators.

We know this is not the case. ITU beds are nationalised. They have capacity for now (although its O2 supplies, not ventillators, that are running urgently low)

But it would be understandable for a family in distress to believe what they thought they heard

trisher I’m always suspicious of people that only believe what they wish to. I’d be very interested to know the full facts behind Mr Paterson’s post. His late brother certainly didn't pass away through lack of a ventilator in QMC.

paddy, I have been thinking about you and the pasting you got. I hope you are OK.

I can only assume this Harry Patterson is beside himself with grief for his brother and angry there were not enough ventilators in Nottingham for his brother to be given one. The government put the extra resourcescto Nightingdale hospital in London as virus was more prevalent there. They are currenly working on next Nightingdale hospital in Birmingham, as virus high in this area. The government is currently trying to get hold of more ventilators but as global pandemic all countries are seeking them too. We are lucky the UK has a lot of inovators like GTec, Dyson, Rolls Royce, etc who have designed new fentilators for us and some will be ready by weekend. We cannot get parts for old ventilators so needed new design.

Boris stable overnight and still not on ventilator. Good news. He needs to rest to fight virus.

Hawelka you have just re posted the OP on a thread that was deleted this morning?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Although CV19 is a respiratory disease, it isnt necessarily the lungs that need to most ITU support. Other organs can fail during this illness such as the kidneys and heart and ventillation isnt the only tool in the ITU box.

Not being on a ventillator doesnt mean no or less organ failure. Its just ONE of their tools

I don't have any doubt GrannyGravy. The economic system, as we know it could be changed out of all recognition.

Patriotism too. A virus is not another country we can fight with armies and sharing with countries may be the only way we move forward on this. Nativism will seem very out of place. We will - I so sincerely hope - have to have a compact with nurses, carers, doctors, cleaners, etc., etc., and pay them appropriately and care for them properly. Paying huge sums for "goods" may come to seem very strange.

Major shocks have been seen to lead to political change - that could be interesting and I am not going to guess what those changes might be. To be in a situation where this could be the future and think Brexit matters - will there be an EU to leave?; will we form another and different cohort of countries? - seems to have missed the breadth of what is happening.

However, I can sympathise with those who do want to bury their heads. I really don't want to think about what will happen in countries with a third world population.