Boris..intensive care..

paddy, I have been thinking about you and the pasting you got. I hope you are OK.

trisher I’m always suspicious of people that only believe what they wish to. I’d be very interested to know the full facts behind Mr Paterson’s post. His late brother certainly didn't pass away through lack of a ventilator in QMC.

Even the most sensible intelligent person wont hear everything correctly when its their loved ones lives being discussed.

They might have been told that a ventillator "wasnt an option" and their brains shut off at that point believing they were told there were no ventillators.

We know this is not the case. ITU beds are nationalised. They have capacity for now (although its O2 supplies, not ventillators, that are running urgently low)

But it would be understandable for a family in distress to believe what they thought they heard

My brother, sadly, wasn’t lucky. Jas, 54, died of Covid-19 in Nottingham’s Queens Medical Centre a week last Saturday night. Unlike the Prime Minister there was no ventilator for Jas. ‘Operation: Last Gasp’, right, Prime Minister?

Is this true or not?

I think you have made a lot of excellent points Hawelka.

Good for you.

No.
He may have been told he was not going to be offered ventillation. But not because of "no ventillators"

It also isnt true that it was specific to that hospital as ventillator beds form a national pool

If there was (?) not a ventilator available at one hospital he would have been transferred to the nearest facility which had one available, this is standard NHS procedure.

I am sorry but I am deeply suspicious of this "story"?, (Maddyone (?) posted a link on a deleted thread)

I would reserve judgement about whether or not the author believes it to be true & give them the benefit if the doubt. In distress, certain words can be clung onto and miss interpreted

Good points notanan

My husband just came in and said "They're discussing how BJ is on the news. Who gives a sh**".
We don't all think the same. (I did remind him that Boris is a human being) .

Really hoping that Boris will pull through.

notanan2 take a look at the authors twitter feed.

He is a journalist. He has very carefully written “There was no ventilator for Jas.” not there was no ventilator available for Jas.

He is able to write the story as he sees it. Medical staff cannot comment on individual cases and the decisions that were made.

What you can Google is the number of hospitalised cases in Nottingham, the number of CV deaths at that time and the number of ventilators available at Queens. And draw your own conclusions.

There is also another major hospital in Nottingham, 19 minutes away, with respiratory facilities.

10 minutes

@maddyone

gg13 if it indeed proves to be a piece of prose rather than a record of how a man felt at the loss of his brother, do you not think that the author was trying to reflect how he and many others would feel in their grief?

It is a picture and reaction of and to grief. A devastating loss that provoked anger and bewilderment. A need to lash out and find a scapegoat.

If you approach it with a critical eye rather than emotional reaction, you may find a greater understanding of how this man imagines what grief feels like. You may not agree but you may understand.

Even senior medical doctors struggle to have the words sink in and get the facts right when it is their own loved one dying!

Whitewavemark2 unfortunately myself and my family are fully aware of and understand grief.

And so do we all gg13 you would be hard pushed to reach our age and not to have experienced devastating loss.

But I think what we can agree on is that grief takes many forms, this chap was describing one where he felt the need to lash out and find someone to blame. Not remotely unusual.

The fact that we may find the object of his vitriol as someone we admire and like and who is fighting his own fight at the moment should not make us want to stop this man from expressing his feelings, in fact we should encourage people to express themselves however they feel during this time of great stress. It gives us a greater empathy and understanding.

The anger is valid the problem is that it implies that ventillators are being rationed and reserved for the privilidged and that isnt true or helpful.
I dont blame the author I blame the people sharing it as "proof" of these "facts"

I’m sorry Grannygravy I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. I didn’t post a link, because I’m rubbish with that and can’t do it. Did I perhaps say something you’re referring to? I’m puzzled.

The Scottish Health Minister ignores government instructions and is no longer Health Minister. The English Prime Minister ignores government health instructions and is in intensive care. Is this what they call "Leading by example"?

Beside which it isnt the actual ventillators we are risking running out of imminently, its the O2 that goes through them! And senior Drs/advisors are now admitting that they didnt properly consider this at the start of planning the crisis as its just not something that our hospitals usually runs out of so it didnt initially come to mind

notanan such a shame to shoot the messanger I always feel.

If the author is wrong, simply provide evidence of his factual inaccuracy. But his feelings stand for the self.

themselves,!