Shut down fraying apart?

It worries me that we are still having a huge amount of deaths I know they are saying we appear to have less people being hospitalised but we are definitely not out of the woods yet .its good that Australia numbers are low sueH wish ours was.

I hope Australian numbers remain low.
They are still allowing flights within states and social distancing seems to be at a stage where ours was weeks ago.

I noticed more people around from few days ago.the sun's out and people want out or else don't believe there's a virus in the first place. Belfast has a high rate compared to other places in northern Ireland.

It is the number of cases which should really concern us - and the rate of infection.
I am personally happier with the idea of lockdown but I recognise that it will not change overnight. There will be a gradual return to a form of normality - and that to me is the harder one to both cope with and to control.
Even here on GN we are reading examples of “bending” the rules, with grandparents missing their grandchildren quoted as justification. That will only increase once the “rules” are flexible. I would love to think common sense would see us through - but it won’t.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/25/people-see-10-friends-family-members-plans-ease-lockdown-12608249/

I really don't understand this at all

In theory it sounds great but it won't work

So the 10 people can only be from 2 households.

Say you have 3 adult children with spouses/partners and they all have children

Which 2 children do you pick? The third could well be miffed to say the least

And what about the cluster of the partners? We won't necessarily feature in theirs. My son in law has a large family including 3 children from a previous marriage. He will want his mother, siblings, children in his cluster My daughter-in-law has both parents, two siblings etc etc

And so it goes on.

Same for friends.

The people in our cluster will have others in their cluster and so it goes on.

It's just a cluster mess

I didn't know that Abby I live about 10 miles from Belfast.
Until I read that I was about to write I am so fed up I am willing to take a chance and drive somewhere different. But what if I had a puncture or felt ill.
Its hard to keep living like this but we can't afford to relax yet. It's not over. But I think as time passes we need to rethink our strategy.

I think that the governments policy of just using fear to try to keep inside and their mantra of Stay at Home, Protect the NHS, etc.....is wearing thin now as they do not seem able or willing to include the public in whatever their ongoing policy is,.
Terrifying people can only last for short time, The whole policy was never to eventually protect most of the people from getting this virus -it was purely based (once they decided they had a policy at all), on 'flattening the curve, so that the health service could cope with those who needed hospitalisation, etc.
There is now increasing concern amongst many professionals about the mental health of the public, not just the people cooped up in abusive homes, or children being unable to get away into their own space or run around anywhere safely.
It is about the mental health of the majority having their lives totally disrupted in a way that could never previously have been imagined. Of the mental health of the so many people worried sick about their finances and whether their jobs, business's will survive and whether they will still have a home to live in at the end of this year,
The mental health of young people and children, many of whom will remain scared of being physically close to anyone for a very long time to come. I really detest that stupid hastag of Stay Safe/Avoid Humans. Horrible!!
The mental health of many of our older people - so many who are living by themselves and have found themselves in total isolation for the past weeks, and the prospect of that continuing for months.
So, yes, people are pushing hard against this. We have (well, most of us), been good - silly comments like Better Six feet apart to Six foot under' do not help, and is not true.
We know the virus has an extremely high infection percentage but a very low (less than 1%) mortality rate. Yes, we know that people with certain immune problems, etc would have a far higher risk. BUT......the cost in terms of economy of the country (not a main concern IMO), of the economy of individual people (very important), of the mental health of most (urgent) is not being included as nobody is changing the mantra.

Franbern
Can I just check, you’re saying that in order to protect people’s mental health, and the economy of some individual people, that we should come out of lockdown and carry on as normal very soon. The deaths of 700 or so people every day is acceptable collateral.

Thank you all for the intelligent, considered and well put responses.

Many companies are reopening due to the need for the products or services they provide.

Bt example one of our daughters has a company that supplies and maintains manual and powered lifting equipment. Their customers are large food distribution centres, manufacturers, care and nursing homes, along with the NHS.

They have been finding that in the last ten days replacement parts required by their engineers involved in repairs have run short. Therefore after talking to those suppliers, they have now reopened their company operations to meet that demand.

I believe as time goes on many more companies will be required to restart as commerce very much relies on a continuous flow in both services and supply for everything to be sustained as operational.

Grandad1943 I agree with your last post, our business ran from lockdown until last Monday with one person in at any one time, as two of our customers were certified essential contractors and we are one of their main suppliers.

This last week there has been three in every day, but finishing at four instead of 6pm.

As from Monday there will be four in every day as more customers have been certified, we are delivering into London, click and collect arranged for customers but not opening the Trade Counter or allowing anyone/supplier/customer inside the building.

Franbern : post at 11.12 I would agree with your post and think it was well written. The Mantra sent out to us of Stay at Home,
Protect the N.H.S. etc, really is starting to wear thin.
Every single day we are sent out so much conflicting messages of what we should and shouldn't do and I feel the whole government policy only contradicts itself
1 : I heard on the news this morning that more traffic has been recorded as being on the roads. Strict advice about this
everybody must remember we are still in lockdown and all warnings still in place are not being lifted so all follow them.
2: More people seem to be about all follow warnings already in place.
3; Watched news bulletin yesterday and watched the people disembarking from the chartered Karachi flight arriving at U.K. airport. They interviewed two passengers and although they had their temperature taken and were asked about the health in their country when they arrived in U.K. they had no testing no scrutiny and were not even going into isolation.
One man said he was glad he was home and was going to see his family. So with six of these chartered flights organised what does that mean to us in the U.K.?
I am fed up doing everything I am supposed to do and will not even go in and see my grand-children I just drive by their house and wave to them at the window. The government should be stricter and take a harsher view with all these flights coming in and out of the U.K. it is disgusting and all that puts all of us at greater risk to me it is a farce.

This is just my musings ... Is it possible that many of the people who have died are people who have been in hospital for a long time but have deteriorated? Maybe we should stop focusing on deaths but on new cases to see if less people are catching it. If this number goes down it might mean that the virus is getting weaker. I do think that they really will have to start easing things soon or there will be riots, especially those of us who can't see their grandchildren!

I agree that it is getting back to "normal". The roads are busy and my local areas are busy, lots of sunbathing and picnics. The area is huge and there isn't enough police to manage.

I don't think the government were clear enough, they issued guidelines to the police saying people can drive to their exercise if the drive was less than their exercise. The issue of eating snacks/resting is OK if you are exercising. Put them both together and people think its OK to carry on as normal.

I loved the way there is less traffic and seeing many more cyclists on the roads. I'm hoping the fall in pollution will be a huge long term benefit of this. Sadly I don't think it will as most people love their cars.

SadGrandma I do know of people who have been in hospital for other reasons eg a routine e operation or after a fall and caught COVID19 whilst in there but it was not recognised as that at first.

Less people will be catching the disease due to “Lockdown” , “sanitising/hand washing, and “Social Distancing”.
Those who have caught it, have come into close contact with an infected person or surface and touched their faces before washing the virus off.
As soon as more people stop doing the above, the virus will continue and probably increase.
The only time it will go, is once there’s a vaccine and we’re all innoculated or immune.

CleoPanda
You are absolutely correct.

3nanny6
I totally agree with you about the flights still coming into the country and a lack of testing when people arrive. Pakistan, the country you mentioned, is badly affected by Coronavirus, and flights still arrive from Iran, Italy, Spain, New York, and elsewhere. I’ve mentioned this on other threads but not many have commented further, so I guess other people don’t think it’s a problem. I believe that as recently as the middle of April that approximately 15,000 people were flying into Britain every week, from many different countries including some that have many cases of Coronavirus.
I think it’s a massive problem. Coronavirus won’t go away whilst we continue to import people from all over the world. People are admiring New Zealand, and whilst I understand that true comparisons are impossible with such different sizes of population, we should remember that one of the first things New Zealand did was close the borders to people, nobody in, nobody out. And they’re apparently pretty much on top of the virus.

FRANBERN (11.12) today. IMO Your post is reasoned & sensible. We are at point where it has to be recognised that government policy has, as it's primary objective, slowing the death rate to an acceptable level. Once that is understood then the government can stop treating us like children & allow us to make our own risk assessments.
I recommend Matthew Parris's piece in today's Times.

Maddyone ; yes I think it is a problem with the flights coming into the country and lack of any testing on arrival. Many countries where they are coming from have also got coronavirus, although lets face it they all have because this problem is global. Like you say New Zealand did close their borders and that was a good move to make. They are doing well with the flattening of infected patients and are soon looking to ease restrictions although in a very careful manner.
My discontent is seeing people that have been stranded in India etc, and they were interviewed on TV and one lady was
totally slamming the British government. Her story was she had flown out of U.K. on 21st March with her children as a relative had died in India and she wanted to attend a
funeral, she was then having problems to get home to U.K. She was blaming everyone for her predicament and I sat watching this on T.V thinking we all knew what was about to happen by 21st March so why on earth would any-body fly out to India? There is so much that has been not done correctly and I certainly think that all flights should have been grounded no matter what your argument just tell them no out no in, but no-one cared to do that.

To all those who keep saying how dreadful it is not to see your grandchildren, well it’s not going to be forever is it?
Some of us with grandchildren overseas don’t see them in person for years, so a few weeks as now is not such a big deal really.
Sometimes you just have to toughen up.

Disturbing that people think it is alright to go back to normal behaviour.
It is expected that there will be 30,000 deaths by the end of May in UK
Not everyone survives. I wouldn't want to take the chance of either contracting the virus or passing it on.

The statistics that we have are unreliable at best, so perhaps people are thinking that there is no reason to stay at home, other than to save the nhs from imploding

If the statistics are low, it is because of lockdown.
If the NHS implodes, there will be many deaths which could be avoided if people needing hospital care do not all need it at the same time.

This screenshot is from a site giving statistics for Scotland.

www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/

It shows that the death rate is much higher than would normally be expected.
So the view that many of the older people who are dying might well have done so anyway, is mistaken.

FarNorth
I have always been of the opinion that the view ‘that many of the older people who are dying might well have done so anyway’ was an ageist view that belittled the deaths of older people and thought them acceptable. Your graph shows the truth, that deaths in Scotland are far higher than usual, and I don’t doubt that the same is true of the rest of Britain.