Foundation Stage 2 reopening 1st June

I do think children need to go back to school, not just for education but to learn how to get on with each other. In my day we all played in the street and socialised like that and our mothers didn't bother so much about where we were. Also not many mothers worked outside the house so childcare was not such a problem. At my junior school in the 1950's there were 42 in the class. We all sat at desks facing the teacher and we did not move until the next class. I learnt to read and write, no problem. Aged 8 I was found talking in class and the teacher called me out and I had the ruler on the palms of my hands. Boys were sent to the headmaster for the cane. Teachers called you by your surname. Very strict in those days. I wouldn't call it fun, though, lunches were awful and a prefect stood over you until you had finished every last morsel. The outside toilets were dark, freezing and stank. Toilet paper was that strange stuff like parchment paper. Jeyes? In the playground boys and girls were separated. When I visited my children's middle school in the 1980's all the children were sitting at round tables and I was shocked at the noise of talking in the class. I do think school seems a lot more interesting these days. I feel sorry for the university students.

I would advise anyone with childcare problems to look at the regulations, draw up a proposal for saying what hours they could work, what work they could do from home and any other requirements. They should then submit that to their employer asap. The employer is legally bound to consider the proposals except in certain conditions such as length of employment. They must also arrange a meeting with the employee to discuss the proposals.
gillybob No teacher, or support worker has asked for any pay rise. The safety of children and staff has been the sole concern of the teaching unions. And in fact it was said yesterday that 60% of parents were not happy with the arrangements for opening. The wide range of school buildings, the needs of the pupils and the number of staff differs so much from school to school it is impossible to have a 'one size fits all' policy. Teachers have worked throughout this crisis to keep key worker's children safe and provide education for children out of school. To start maligning them by accusing them of something they have never mentioned is unacceptable.

Ooop.... should read .....she has been told that if she cannot come to work due to lack of childcare.........

My DD’s workplace reopens next week . She has been told that if she. A not come to work due to lack of childcare she can take parental leave . Unpaid of course.

If we are not careful we are going to see a huge amount of resentment building up towards the public sector as I fear that the teaching unions and the other public sector unions are probably going to use this as a way to get more money for their members.

Both my granddaughters are going back. One in nursery and one in yr 6. I'm sure the elder one will cope not sure about the younger one. My grandson is in yr 4 so he'll be staying at home. He's quite pleased about it atm, but I'm sure he'll get bored soon without his sister. We shall see anyway. Well done to all the teachers, you all do a fantastic job!

trisher, in regard to your post @10:28 today, I could not agree more with your comments in regard the trade unions requirement to be offering full support to members with child care problems in the present crisis.

However, the various contracts of employment and absentee systems that employers use these days often make for a very variable and complex situation in many instances.

By example to the above, should an employer use what is known as the Bradford system for absenteeism then each period of absence incurs the employee with a set number of points regardless of the reason for the absence. Normally three of four periods of absence over a short period of time will result in the dismissal of the employee no matter what problems he/she may have.

Of course, the employee may stay off work indefinitely due to child care problems which would then only incur one fixed set of points. The problem then becomes that the situation allows the employer to undertake an employment compatibility review in regard to the employees indefinite non-attendance.

I have been advising a forum member in the "Other subjects" section of the forum, with the thread title of "uncertain times in job role". That problem is in regard to a health problem on returning from furlough, but the process could equally be used by an employer in regard to child care problems.

If you would take a look at that situation trigger, or any other forum member, I would be interested what you think in terms of its relationship to the child care problem now being faced by so many trying to return to work.

The above is only one scenario in what can be a very complex issue dependent on employer, contract, status and employee situation.

Grandad1943 I do hope that all employers would bear in mind their responsibilities regarding offering child-friendly working practices and hope that unions are offering advice to the parents of young children about negotiating hours, conditions and the place they work. Should employers fail to offer to negotiate and simply fire workers because of child care issues they may find themselves with legal actions against them.

One of my daughters recalled from furlough is a key worker. So is her husband. School say if they do open in June, their fie year old will be one of four from her year. She won’t be with others from her class, or with her teacher. She may not be in her own school. They would like her to be able Togo back to school but aren’t sure they can send her to such unfamiliar circumstances.

Iam64 in regard to your post @13:56 today, I agree that the issue of working parents being recalled from furlough and not being able to obtain child care is becoming a very serious matter for many families.

Perhaps the opening paragraph in my above post should have read "a second main issue has emerged in the school's problem" rather than "There is a side issue to the school's problem emerging".

That stated, it certainly has become indisputable that employers perhaps concentrating on the survival of there companies at this time of unprecedented crisis are giving a very hard time to parents who state they are unable to attend their place of employment due to lack of child care.

As stated, it is now a major problem in many family households, unless it is declared by government that all who are recalled to work following furlough are essential workers and therefore their children can attend school, I cannot perceive a solution to the problem?

However, I would be the first to concede that the above would bring forward its own major problems.

The issue of child care isn't a side issue Grandad, it's central for working parents, primarily working mothers, as it always has been. I agree with you that many employers are less than understanding about the childcare issues.

Many of the young women who initially tried to work from home whilst caring for children, reluctantly furloughed. In the past week, they're being asked to return to work. The message many are getting is that if they can't return, there may not be a job for them in the near future.
Grandparents who provide a lot of child care may have health or age (or both) issues that mean they are no longer able to do their usual care of grandchildren.

Our local schools are working hard to get ready to safely resume teaching larger groups than is currently the case. Many private nurseries are desperate for children to return. No easy answers are there

Thank youmgrandad1943 we are providing a service and if people haven’t got childcare they might be overpassed with someone else for their job. Terrifying times we didn’t ask for this but we are trying to get back to new normality!

I’m sorry but I have to jump in here. We are doing our best with nursery children we have created bubble areas which will be safe and fun adjusted timetables and outdoor areas for learning we are returning next week and if it was next week or September you’d still have the same problems boris is right sending them back this isn’t a ordinary life for them and they will be social distancing themselves because they will have forgotten how to interact by September!

The trouble with the double desks in top infants was that they paired up boys and girls.
I wasn't keen on my desk partner and he used to copy from me. He also taught me to swear!

There is a side issue to the school's problem emerging. Many parents now being recalled from furlough are finding there is no child care is available during their working hours.

Many employers seem to be taking a harsh line with the above problem, in that non-attendance by employees is being registered as straight forward absenteeism. Where work is short in such companies due to the crisis the foregoing makes employees caught up in a child care situation highly vulnerable to losing their jobs either through non-attendance or that factor being included in any redundancy criteria.

Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me but I definitely remember sitting at a desk for lengthy periods in the infants.
Perhaps I was 6 or 7 though.

I'd just like to say that, despite sitting apart at desks when we were 7, I still managed to get nits so keeping children apart would be difficult.

Would all the rules and orders about social distancing be more damaging to little ones than losing a term's education in school at that age?

What a negative suggestion to helping nursery and reception children return safely to school Jennifer Eccles, that they should sit still until given permission to move. I don't remember early years being so unpleasant in the 1950s. I'm glad there isn't corporal punishment in school now, one of the other positive changes during our life time.

Jennifer
I found a photo of me on the internet (old photos of my home town, I must be ancient to be included!).
It is of the Infants' class and we are either standing or sitting around tables, can't remember what we were doing but we weren't sitting at desks in rows at that age.
I can remember sitting at desks by the time we were about 7, but in pairs.

My dd said she wouldn’t send Gdd (just 5, in reception) back in June if there were going to be very restrictive ‘bubbles’ etc.
But it seems not. Not a lot different from usual, except smaller groups and separate areas in their thankfully very large and lovely playground.

BTW in my first school year in the mid 50s we didn’t sit at desks - we were 4 to a table, and it was generally quite relaxed and play-based - and half a day only that first year.
I was over 5 1/2 when I started school, too, quite a bit older than many little ones now.
I think my school was probably fairly progressive, though.

Sorry but this argument “they can’t stay home for ever” doesn’t always work. Suggesting that we wait until a lot of issues are sorted, eg testing tracing definitive answers about children passing virus on or not, working out a sensible plan if social distancing is still required does not mean anyone is suggesting children stay at home for ever but it’s possible putting it off until September might be more sensible. Sorry that is a rambling... today is not a good day.

Yes, on a local news programme, a viewer thought the returns should be delayed until September “ When it will be safer”.

But it won’t be much different in that social distancing will still be in place, and children can’t stay at home forever.

I can't see my 5 year old GGD doing as she's told I've never come across such a wilful madam. If she doesn't want to do something----she won't. How many others must be like her, she certainly won't be the only one ? I wouldn't like to begin teaching a class of them.
The child is very much a people person and a friendly little bod. Oh dear.

That's a fair point Oopsadaisy At what point WILL it be considered safe for children to return? The virus will still be here. The colder months will be approaching... there is always going to be a small level of risk.

Ooh yes! Let's go back in time! Shall we train them to climb chimneys? In no way should children enjoy learning, why they might start to think for themselves!

JenniferEccles Good luck with that with 4 and 5 year olds.