Manners going out of the window?

Thank you very much for your responses. I suppose that we just need to instill what is acceptable in different environments and with different people.

I made sure my own children said "Please", "Thank you" and "Excuse me", and thankfully, my grandchildren have been used to the same manners. They say "Please may I......"

I was told that if you had your elbows on the table the footman/servant/waiter would not be able to serve your food.

To Smurf44
It’s fascinating to learn that’s why the elbow rule started. ?

I think it is. I'd never ask anyone to remove their shoes but I'm always pleased if they offer.

I think wearing hats indoors is up to the wearer and has no bearing on manners. Is wearing outdoor shoes inside considered bad manners?

4allweknow - I loathe the “ Sir and Ma'm ” of the USA.
I hated it 40 years ago but think it’s even more endemic now.

It smacks of subservience as it’s massively over used in my opinion.

Red1. Last Summer I took my then 5 year old GS to Mary Arden’s Farm near Stratford where Shakespeare grew up. At 1pm we watched the Master serving the meal to his servants before eating their simple Elizabethan meal. Apparently the table where they all sat was simply a loose board resting on “trestles”. If someone on one side rested their elbows heavily on the table the board (table) would flip up which resulted in plates and food being thrown into the air, which was a waste and a mess for all concerned. So “Elbows off the table” was strictly enforced. Maybe it’s not such an important rule these days! Merely an old fashioned tradition that has been instilled into us over the last 500 years! ?.

“Above Board” was another Elizabethan saying. Hands had to be visible at the “table” so none of the young male hands strayed anywhere near the young females during their meals.

We all learned something that day!

Nowadays, I very much enjoy putting little pieces of bread in my soup to get soaked.
That's something I'd be told off for, as a child.

I was very strict with my daughter about manners, less so with grandson now.

I will get up and leave the table if I think he is deliberately trying to provoke a reaction.

I don't get too excited about manners with GC. Too glad to see them to consider reprimands. Happily their parents seem to have the situation well in hand. However I don't always agree with their thinking but zip fully in place as it's just not that important to me and certainly their territory.

According to the etiquette experts the act of removing your hat indoors probably began with medieval knights. In Medieval times any knight who failed to remove his helmet or lift his visor to identify himself could face fatal consequences. Knights also removed their helmets as a sign of vulnerability and trust in churches and in the presence of women and royalty.

So helmets off chaps!

Mr B wears his hat indoors, he needs to wear one outside in the sun but as he is in and out all day he just keeps it on. What has not wearing a cap indoors got to do with manners. I believe manners is about respect for others.

There has been an issue regarding "manners" for many years now. It begins at home I think but needs reinforcing with extended family, schools etc.

My elder son thanked me for insisting on good manners. He has noticed that the way he carries himself has had a huge impact on his career.

My children are much stricter with their children than I think I used to be!
after each meal they say “Thank you for my nice lunch/tea / whatever. Please may I get down”
Mine used to ask to get down to be fair and as a child I had to say “Please may I leave the table” to which my Dad would usually joke “Well you can’t take it with you” - and we would groan.
But I also remember when the girls came home from visiting Granny and Grandpa I woukd realise what lovely manners they showed, not only at the table, but in general. I don’t think they were nagged into it, but followed the example of my in-laws who had lovely manners!
(Lasted about a day! )
TBH it is their parents’ job but the fact remains that good manners will stand anybody in good stead in later life -and boorish behaviour whether at table or elsewhere, and bad manners will always create a bad impression.
A good example by parents and grandparents however is worth any amount of nagging of course.

'Hat honour' for men used to be very important.
In the 17th century men were expected to remove their hat to show respect for a social superior.
Quaker men did not do so, as they believed all were equal.

Uncooked joints off the table

One of my Grandma's favourite sayings

I don't see my DGD often enough to influence her much.
I say please and thank you around her but she is very reluctant to say them herself, although her parents encourage her to do so.
Apparently, though, she is very polite at school.

My girls are quite strict about manners as that's how they were brought up. If the two younger DGC talk whilst eating I always say "chew, swallow then talk" which they both love & have been known to say it to their parents if needed! Our eldest DGD isn't allowed to look at her phone while eating. If one of the little ones coughs they will get a "hand" & obviously please & thank you but this is no different to home, if anything I'm more relaxed than their mums. I don't like rudeness, I quite often get a message to have a word with the eldest (though tbh I think her mum is too strict!)

My mother was a stickler for good manners and pretty outspoken too if friends didn't say please or thankyou, she'd ask them if they were taught manners in their house. Oh dear.

We always had to say please may I leave the table and I got the giggles one day when a cousin who was sitting at the table-top mangle had said " please may I leave the mangle ". It sounded so funny at the time.

Thankfully all my GGC were taught manners so please and thankyou come easy without having to remind them.

The boys don't wear caps, they'd never fit because they don't have short hair-cuts and their hair is thick on top but not down to their shoulders. Old-fashioned is what it would be called going by some haircuts.

Just thought of something that strikes me as really bad manners and we saw a lot of it around before the lockdown. People who are out with a dining companion and then spend much of the time talking to someone else on the phone I wonder why they bother going out with a person who is right there in front of them when all their conversation appears to be had with whoever is on the end of their phone and aren't there with them. I do think it's bad manners to take telephone calls at the dinner table. Unless you happen to be a doctor on call, otherwise switch it off!

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Manners should lead to considerate behaviour, empathy. Etiquette is just for show. I just woke up to the fact, that in this con constituency selfish, inconsiderate behaviour is to be expected, as cons can only think of themselves, no matter, how much showy etiquette they are aware of. So we end up with a town centre park littered with debris and human excrement after much partying.

Hi, we remind them of please and thank you. (Elbows on the table went out the window years Im afraid. ). I will pull them up about table manners - spearing a whole fish finger and then eating it bit by bite off the fork for example! But age appropriate. I expect better manners from the 12 year old then the 4! Other then that unless they're being rude or misbehaving I don't worry to much.