Are the madding crowds doing us all a favour?

thinking that air conditioning plays a massive part in spreading all virus.outdoors must be safer .

I am astonished that there are still those on gransnet who still link the Coronavirus and flue in the same sentence, surely we must all by now be aware that it is far more virulent and for certain age groups and the more vulnerable far, far worse. Yesterday while out for a walk I noticed three teenagers, about 16/17 years old who then started to run towards a bus just arriving at the bus stop. I saw them get on the bus and immediately registered that they were not wearing masks, as I drew level with the open door I noticed the boy in conversation with the bus driver, the two girls having already gone upstairs (double decker). I continued to walk on but turned several times as the bus did not move away, eventually all three got off the bus and started to make rude gestures at the bus driver who had obviously insisted they got off as they were not wearing the masks required on public transport. This is just a small example of the total disregard for safety that some of the young are now displaying.

polnan

I think the virus is suspected to be more prevalent in the winter months, simply because we tend to be indoors more, and in closer contact,, so the answer to that is,, well climate change is making the summers hotter, also the winters are more mild,,, so we can be outdoors or have windows and doors open more and SWITCH OFF air conditioning, which I understand is not good.

working in offices,factories, ie getting back to work? I thought the Government was insisting that employers ensure everyone can work within the social distancing rules?

and as I have already said, switch off air conditioning... and get the air moving through the places of employment?

so back to work, not just the Government wanting this, surely it is for all of us? the economy? or do we want to go bankrupt as a country?

Good post??
I don’t think it’s spread much by people on beaches....it’s more the small indoor spaces ( our homes) with too many people visiting and places like pubs/night clubs.
If everybody was more careful over who was in their home and pubs only served drinks out of doors and all nightclubs were closed this would be a good start.

I seem to remember our paper said that it was self evident that the inebriated can’t/don’t social distance, and that was when the pubs very first re-opened

Good for the publicans and hoteliers in Brechin, Taichinan! The days of the pub crawl must be over, and I think it's time that someone said so, loud and clear. At least Nicola Surgeon expressed her opinion of the idiot Aberdeen footballers who went out for a meal, against the agreements reached by the football authorities.

@FarNorth

You're right. I spent several months in Japan a year or two ago and I do not remember seeing any fat let alone obese people. However, I hear that their diet is changing , for example they are now eating more meat with a consequent increase in bowel cancer.

More of a test will be the biker rally currently happening in Sturgis, USA. An estimated 250,000 bikers there for 10 days. Most of them ideologically opposed to masks, ie idiots. If there is a surge in infections, let's hope they don't all take it home to Granny and Grandpa.

Fresh air and sunlight with Vitamin D are good for you. Our immune system will be useless when it comes up against other viruses etc if we cut off completely to the outside world. I think Franbern is right, not all beaches are stacked with people on top of each other - some are behaving sensibly.

To expect that young people could go to a pub, have a few drinks and then continue social-distancing was pie-in-the-sky! It was never going to happen! But the publicans/hoteliers in Brechin, Angus, have got together and agreed among themselves that they will operate a strict pre-booking regime which will also make pub crawling difficult. You cannot expect the inebriated or just plain merry, to self-regulate.

I'm tempted by the notion of behaving more normally re meeting others etc - but not if that's likely to result in life threatening illness.
The question, of course, is how likely could that be?

NemosMum, coronavirus is NOT the same as flu virus. It is related to the virus which causes the common cold, and we all know how well an immunisation against that is working. If there is an immunisation against coronavirus it may be given at the same time as the flu jab, but it will not be a flu jab.

Oopsminty I believe the typical Japanese diet is much healthier than the usual Western one, also.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yes, herd immunity does exist with all infections which are not immediately lethal to all. Herd immunity has been estimated at around 80% for a novel infection, and that's the rate we aim for in the 14 diseases we routinely vaccinate for. Our problem is that we can only detect it by the presence of antibodies at the moment, but with Covid-19, T-cell immunity seems to be the major component of all those people who shake it off with mild symptoms or none at all. T-cell immunity fades with age, so older people are much more vulnerable than the young. Unfortunately, we haven't yet got a large-scale reliable test for it. In areas where the virus has been and gone, only about 17% of people gave positive antibody tests, so it's likely that about 60% have T-cell immunity. I've been reading hundreds of abstracts as I'm a member of an online current affairs discussion group which I moderate. Remember that despite positive tests showing slight increases on the basis of small samples, the numbers of people admitted to hospital are now very small and slowly decreasing as are 'Covid-related' deaths. We are getting through this.

My dd and family, with another similar, are camping near the S coast this weekend. They’ve visited 2 different beaches which I can see from the photos and little vids are not remotely crowded.,

Dd reported yesterday that the sea was so warm, almost tropical. They’re all enjoying it, including a 7m old baby, so it must really be warm.
To me, in such circumstances the benefits of sun, fun, and Vitamin Sea will far outweigh any risks.

working on the same logic - with the majority of schools either closed, or with small no of pupils - for nearly 6 months, with most children having very little contact with other children - shouldn't this also eradicate the tiresome problem of 'nits'? We know that you need a close encounter with someone with 'nits' to catch them - would love to know the answer in October / December

Herd Immunity does exist, but we're nowhere near reaching it for this virus

Sweden is mumbling that it's possible they have achieved herd immunity without imposing a lockdown

Japan has had incredible success. No lockdown, no closed borders, no test, test, test. 126 million population. Very old population. And they have had just over 1000 deaths.

Obesity in this country is at 28%, overweight 35%.

4% Japanese are classed as obese

Also the Japanese tend to wear masks outdoors. Have done for years. Up until recently WHO and numerous experts have told us they don't help.

I suppose we're still learning. Our medics have learned how to treat this and our deaths are falling

Annaraml, you took the words out of my mouth, and Bathsheba I've been to both Brazil and India and my hair will tell you that humidity is very high in both.

NemosMum is there proof that herd immunity actually exists?

they are not taking it home to granny
Maybe that's because a lot of older people are still keeping away from others, even family members.

Society is not behaving now in the ways it was before covid so, of course, the virus won't spread so quickly even if there are spikes.
That doesn't mean it's less of a threat.

There’s a lot of well founded research linking the level of air pollution to the incidence of COVID. That could be part of the explanation as to why India and Brazil are so badly hit.

I think the virus is suspected to be more prevalent in the winter months, simply because we tend to be indoors more, and in closer contact,, so the answer to that is,, well climate change is making the summers hotter, also the winters are more mild,,, so we can be outdoors or have windows and doors open more and SWITCH OFF air conditioning, which I understand is not good.

working in offices,factories, ie getting back to work? I thought the Government was insisting that employers ensure everyone can work within the social distancing rules?

and as I have already said, switch off air conditioning... and get the air moving through the places of employment?

so back to work, not just the Government wanting this, surely it is for all of us? the economy? or do we want to go bankrupt as a country?

Yes they are doing us a favour! Either by demonstrating that there is not an increase in numbers with the virus OR by transmitting the virus among young people who are either symptomless (80%) or mildly unwell, hence building up herd immunity to protect older and more vulnerable people. It's very instructive that, despite finding a FEW more positive tests in some areas, there is a consistent trend to far fewer people being admitted to hospital, and very few deaths. I suspect that the recent lockdowns in specific areas have been more for political expediency than anything else. The apparent 'increase' in those areas was based on spot testing on very small numbers (fewer than 80) young symptomless people. And no - they are not taking it home to granny, otherwise the hospital numbers would be rising, which they are not! The virus is on its way to becoming just one of the various seasonal flu viruses, and with any luck, it will be added to the flu jab we get every year.

The virus is all round the world, hot and cold countries alike, when it's summer here, it's winter somewhere else.

There has been no evidence whatsoever that people on the beach, outside with fresh sea air are have any real danger of spreading this virus. Indeed, the Vit D they are getting and fresh air can only be good for them.
Personally, I think that many of them are in far greater danger of heatstroke and sunburn -but that is as it always is.
Also, many of the photos of beaches with people crowded together are faked. This was actually proven by a local photographer in my seaside town, who followed one from a national newspaper and took pictures of the same areas of the beach at the same time, Local photographer, using a normal lense, showed people well apart in their own family groups, national newspaper guy,, using special wide lense, showed same places with all those people close to each other.
The health benefits particularly to the children, of running around in the sun, playing with sand and sea is enormous.

I believe the present problem in Aberdeen was caused by a pub crawl. Need I say more?