I know I m going to get my head bitten off but here goes anyway

Vegansrock.

Trees are not felled to provide moorland.
Moorland is not wooded.
The moors are a wild and natural habitat that are fiercely protected.

In the 1990’s an experiment took place in a remote part of Wales.
The moor was left to nature and not managed to see if certain species increased.
Every species declined.

Keep them like chickens ? Never heard of battery hens ?

Surely no one believes the chicken they buy to eat was kept on
farms where they pecked away at the ground all day and was safely
locked in coops at night to protect them from foxes

BlueBelle, Your keep insisting this thread is about William and Kate but where is the evidence that Kate was there and that they took George with them?

^I live in a very rural part of Wales, it’s a different way of
life to towns and cities.^

Food such as meat or fish arrives in supermarkets in towns and cities in plastic packages, Anniebach, having been manufactured in a factory!

If you just wanted to eat them you’d keep them like chickens. No, not necessarily.
There are many objections to the way some chickens are farmed.

“missfood - “*the moor is managed to provide the best possible conditions for the birds*” - yes, so this is why hares, birds of prey are killed, trees removed etc to “protect the birds“ so you can try to kill them for fun. If you just wanted to eat them you’d keep them like chickens. Yes even “protected species” are killed illegally - there’s plenty of evidence of this and no action is taken.

We shoot grouse and I will always defend the sport, there are so many aspects of this that most people do not understand.
Firstly the management of grouse moors means many wildlife species are protected,including hen harriers who will feed on young grouse.

Grouse are truly wild and are not bred, the moor is managed to provide the best possible conditions for the birds.

If numbers are low due to poor conditions the moor will be rested.
If the moors were not managed as they are many of them would be inaccessible as footpaths and trails, the moor we shoot on is full of public footpaths.

The source of income for the local economy is huge, gamekeepers, beaters, loaders and the many pubs, restaurants and hotels that benefit.
Also the staff and local food suppliers that provide the hospitality at the shooting lodges.

It is not a sport for toffs! It is a real mixed bag, yes there are plenty of “ landed gentry “ but also plenty of ordinary people like ourselves.

All birds that are shot are divided up and shared among the shooters and beaters with excess going to the catering trade.

It would not be unusual to spend a whole day on a grouse moor and not get a single bird!
They are notoriously hard to hit.
This link is interesting www.gwct.org.uk/policy/briefings/driven-grouse-shooting/conservation-on-grouse-moors/

If we accept that animals and birds are sentient beings, and there is increasing evidence that this is so, it is difficult to justify killing or eating them.
Imagine a not so dystopian future, as artificial intelligence moves on apace, and robots for example, overtake humans in intelligence and skills, we may become the hunted. You may scoff at this idea but I’d advise you to take a closer look at the complex advances in AI before you do.

I agree its one thing killing animals for food but quite another killing them for sport. I don't agree with the latter.

Lucca it’s about the way we treat animals, nothing to do with saints, I live in a very rural part of Wales, it’s a different way of
life to towns and cities.

Shooting for fun is unacceptable in my view. Taking a child along is even more unacceptable, no matter who it is.

Anniebach what does that have to do with grouse shooting ? Come what may it’s saint William and saint Kate.

Why are people constantly changing the thread into a meat eater versus vegetarian thread

ITS NOT written for that... .that’s a personal choice

it’s about killing for entertainment pleasure and fun
If the queen was running a puppy farm if Kate was seen shooting a cat you d all be up in arms (except the few that would defend the Royals come hell or high water) but because they are ‘only‘ birds and the birds are bred solely to be killed by ‘country folk’ it’s all ok ....well let’s breed tome kittens set them loose and see who can kill the most
The trophy hunter is a criminal in my eyes and bagging the most dead birds with your son watching is on a par

Keeping budgies in cages is cruel, same with rabbits, hamsters, guinea pigs, rats , rabbits etc, as is keeping house cats,

Slowly change is happening. People whose way of life depends on the industry that is "country pursuits" for want of a better expression cannot be expected to suddenly become Townies, like the rest of the population.
But there is a growing distaste for the Feudal system operated on these great Sporting estates
Public opinion, as shown on this thread (and I'm sure the Queen must be aware ) is very powerful.
I read recently that the Duke of Buccleuch is selling some of his land to a local community who in turn are getting grants from the government to help with the purchase.
www.tatler.com/article/duke-of-buccleuch-puts-wanlockhead-scotland-up-for-sale

Exactly. It’s the sport element that is wrong. When I was young, we were poor and ate everything my father shot. Fair enough. But it gradually developed into a sport for him. He once delightedly showed me two geese he had killed. No intention of eating them. I was horrified.

Yes, this feted couple can do no wrong. Personally not a great fan of either.

Im not demanding my way or no way sparking , I think grouse shooting should be licensed and regulated and anyone killing protected wildlife prosecuted. At the moment people involved in this “sport”: can get away with destroying the environment and other wildlife with no repercussions.

But they are killing endangered species sparkling , hen harriers, eagles and mountain hares are killed in Scotland to protect the grouse moors so people can enjoy shooting these hapless birds. NO PROSECUTIONS. Trophy hunters throughout the world kill endangered species - one of the reasons they are endangered. People can pay to kill stags in this country just to have their photos taken with the dead animal- not to eat it or for any legitimate reason.

quizqueen good post.
An interesting factoid that most of the venison eaten in Scotland is imported, farmed deer from NZ.
I don't like seeing deer farmed but perhaps we can get used to anything!

Your post BlueBelle has grown arms and legs - or is that wings. The subject provokes strong feelings.

Vegansrock, your comments are so far off the mark. They are not killing endangered species and trophy hunting for fun. You know little of country lufe if you think that. What about deer culls? Your views are your own, I take it you don't wear leather or wool or anything that comes off an animal? That is your choice and very worthy too. It gets on my wick all this judgement from those that demand their way is one only way.

There is a whole”trophy hunting” industry too - people pay to kill wildlife and have their pictures taken with the dead body. Horrible. It happens in this country btw.

This isn’t about defending meat eating - it’s about shooting grouse for fun, and deliberately destroying wildlife and the environment in the process. The whole “sport” should be regulated to outlaw these obscenities.

If you are vegetarian, then eating any living thing is not acceptable to you. I am not a vegetarian, so all the fish, meat and chicken I eat had to be killed to provide food. I have reliably sourced produce, reared naturally and then humanely killed. If you went into a commercial chicken factiry it would horrify you and possibly put anyone from eating it again. Shooting is a clean kill, prefable to the factory method. I could never kill anything, but I eat what others have, as does anyone who is not vegetarian. I am not bothered by country people shooting their good, better than trapping or a factory. I think a lot of people never think how food gets to their plates, so if it offends you give up eating whatever you object to. As for children watching the process, this is part and parcel of country life and death, natural processes, not gratuous violence portrayed on screen almost daily or in the papers.

I’m with Chewbacca, Merlotgran and others on this one.

My father still goes fishing for trout and salmon and eats everything he catches (or someone in the family does) and during my childhood he caught rabbits, pheasant and grouse for the table.

He taught us all how to prepare the carcasses for the oven so I’m not squeamish on that score either. I stopped my car once on a country road as someone had winged a pheasant and it was in agony. I pulled it’s neck, popped it in the boot and we ate it a week later - I will always believe I did the right thing.

Very few foods are produced without creatures being harmed so I’d shut up rather than be called a hypocrite.

Bluebelle I couldn't agree more.