Eddie Izzard

If almost half of transwomen in prison are there for sexual offences, a rate higher than the general male population, why IS that? Are men pretending to be transwomen to gain access to females or what? How can I tell the difference between a male woman and man pretending to be a woman?

Do you believe female women exist?

Trans phobia is growing, funded and supported by the fear brigade which is backed (even if you don't know it?) by substantial right wing/Christian organisations.

Yes, of course I know it. And I also know that anti-feminism is growing and funded by the same (or broadly similar) people. IMO denying the fact that women even exist as a sex is a worrying part of it.

Trans phobia is growing, funded and supported by the fear brigade which is backed (even if you don't know it?) by substantial right wing/Christian organisations

There you go again trisher, none of this is relevant to the lies that will come with self ID.
Ordinary women will have to live those lies if self ID comes in.

Women and girls will have more than just one Izzard to deal with.

..and yes, there have always been people unhappy with their sex. When you say if they look like a woman, which woman do you mean? Me? My daughter? What is this womanly look we all share that can be copied by men at a whim? What do I share with a transwoman that my husband does not? Also thoughts on sports, rape centres, awards and representation, shared uni rooms, places where teenage girls undress.

Medical trials, should transwomen and women be included together? Would that help women access better sex specific health care? Is Eddie really a girl, what happens if Eddie changes to boy mode?

What are your thoughts on male violence trisher? Do you think when a man declares himself female that he leaves those traits behind. Like when a man becomes a priest and they are held above other men, seen as safer?

FarNorth
Everyone accepted Izzard as male until a week or so ago
So now we all have to go along with the charade that this man is a woman.
Last week there was no pretence, this week we all have to comply.

My reply is as always, they are there already Doodledog they have always been there. I do not propose to check anyone's birth certificate, inspect their genitals or judge their gender any other way than the one I have always used, which is simply looking.
Trans gender isn't new. Trans phobia is growing, funded and supported by the fear brigade which is backed (even if you don't know it?) by substantial right wing/Christian organisations.
Proper risk assessment already used in women's refuges protects women from violent and agressive people. Cross the board trans phobia does nothing except create division.
If you look like a woman, say you are a woman, stand beside me in my fight for rights and freedoms, act with me to counter the restrictive inequality which blights lives you are my sister and I accept you as such. I'm not going to ask for a gender certificate or anything else.

Just dividing on the basis of birth gender protects no-one.

It does protect some.

Just dividing on the basis of self-declared gender protects no-one.
Self-declared gender is being accepted as if it is the same as biological sex, which it isn't.

Great post Doodledog, last point particularly.

pensionpat thank you for your reply.
I'm sure your grandchild is lovely but that doesn't affect his biological sex.

Good wishes to you.

Back to the original post. No, I don't think a middle aged man is brave for stating that he is in girl mode. I have a daughter, a girl, and she isn't anything like Eddie. She is a young female and that's the only thing that makes a girl a girl.

If you believe otherwise and really think that Eddie is a girl then I'm gonna need a little persuading...

NiceasMice

trisher
The people really opposing trans rights are in fact often right wing Christian extremists who believe that abortion and gay marriage should be banned as well

trisher, you are so wrong here, way off the mark.

Way off.

I am a member of the Labour Party, am not 'opposed to trans rights', am not a Christian, and am definitely not homophobic .

I have found on this site that 'right wing' is often used as an insult to people who don't agree with certain posters, or who have a broader view of a topic. As I said, I am not remotely transphobic, and I resent being told that because I object to women being pushed aside to make room for anyone who self-identifies as female makes me so. I am supportive to transwomen, and fully understand that they have a hard time.

All I (and others) object to is to their being able to share spaces with vulnerable women who would prefer to be in a single sex environment ie in very specific circumstances, and even then only when the transwoman has not transitioned.

What is wrong about that? Why should women (as usual) give way to men? In all other respects, I think that transwomen should have the same rights and respect as any other member of society.

This is the point in the conversation where you (trisher) usually say that you have had enough of the transphobia and disappear without answering the question or addressing the points. I hope that doesn't happen this time, as I would like to know why you feel that women should give up the right to be in a single sex space when they have reason to feel vulnerable, and why their needs should be put second to the wishes of a man who has self-identified as female?

Why can't non-transitioned transwomen simply not go to those spaces? I'm not talking about public lavatories, but about rape suites, female-only swimming pools and gyms, and other single-sex places that could be easily avoided with very little impact on the lives of transwomen. Is it such a big price to pay for being accepted as female?

trisher

Does no-one read the links I post? I realise some of you don't want to hear it but just Google right wing christian anti-trans movements. It is growing here and in the US and it is massively funded.

You miss spelt grass roots feminist movement concerned about safeguarding...

Address the points, answer the questions. If you just fling wild accusations about you're going to look a bit daft.

Everyone accepted Izzard as male until a week or so ago.
Then he said that he is in 'girl-mode' and wants she/her pronouns to be used.
He had not found out anything about himself that was previously unknown.
He is still the same male person as ever, yet numerous people like trisher are claiming that he is a woman.

It seems completely superficial to believe that Izzard, or any other male person, is actually a woman simply because he says so.

I have not see that evidence AmberSpyglass however I have seen numerous studies which confirm that where changing rooms are unisex, abuse rates rise. I have zero problem with people who do not wish to share facilities with men, as they consider themselves women, to have their own facilities. I do have a problem sharing female facilities with a biological male.
I base my identity as a woman entirely on my biology. Apart from my biology I am just a person, no inner womanliness here. I can respect that someone else feels differently. But why is the way they identify more important than the way I do.
And by the way, show me the figures supporting the increased risk to transwomen.
And maybe take a look at a few of those things, that don't happen, except they do
www.facebook.com/groups/1722756661380462/?view=group
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

In supporting self ID, the trans rights juggernaut will systematically dismantle safeguarding rules for all vulnerable people.

It is a massive loophole.

Mate, you're the one handing over women's rights, not me. You are the one who is advocating for men is women's prisons. What about sports? Wards? Medical exams, medical tests, shared university rooms, awards and representation? See, that matters to me.

Women are adult human females, we deserve to retain our hard won rights and protections.

You should really have a look at some of the people in the camp that wants women and girls not to have boundaries, quite eye watering really...

Does no-one read the links I post? I realise some of you don't want to hear it but just Google right wing christian anti-trans movements. It is growing here and in the US and it is massively funded.

LSP it's a pity you don't understand how such organisations work. They pick you off in little bits. So today it's trans people, tomorrow it will probably be abortion-so damaging to women (there is already some literature on that), then probably gay marriage and before you know it we are back in the kitchen serving men because that's where the bible says we should be. It won't happen you will say. But I never thought I would see women who have fought hard for their rights opposing other's freedoms and yet we have it.
It isn't for me or anyone else to dictate what medical help someone may need.
The rise of right wing extremism frightens me far more than any trans person does.

trisher
The people really opposing trans rights are in fact often right wing Christian extremists who believe that abortion and gay marriage should be banned as well

trisher, you are so wrong here, way off the mark.

Doodledog

Excellent posts, LSP.

Thank you Doodle, It's a hard slog but I think the tide is turning. I just hope for a world where men and women can wear what they like and love who'll have 'em. One day eh

Read this thread and truly despair

Actually one of the first things you can do to protect women and girls is to give them sex segregated areas, it's a very basic safeguarding standard. Single sex areas exist for a reason and allow women and girls to participate in everyday life.

You either believe in safe guarding or you don't. I do. You either believe women and girls deserve to retain their existing sex based rights and protections or you don't. I do. They are still wanted, they are still needed.

Also the idea that a person who shares your belief is an ally is silly. Both Donald Trump and I would look up on a clear day and state that the sky was blue, wouldn't make us allies.

I'm not attacking anyone's rights, I'm standing up for women and girls existing rights and protections. I have marched for lesbian and gay rights since I was a kid. This new movement is homophobic, many gay feminine boys now identifying as girls and masculine young lesbians identifying as boys. If they end up on a medical pathway they could end up infertile. I'm on the side that says love who will have you, wear what you like. Just don't tell me sex isn't real or that anyone can change sex. Don't tell me children need medicating because they don't like their bodies. Don't tell me male rapists belong in women's prisons. Don't tell me female sport is for unhappy men when I know it's for exceptional women.

When a middle aged man says he is a girl and a lesbian that is sexist, homophobic nonsense.