Eddie Izzard

Excellent posts, LSP.

The idea that people who recognise sex, seek to uphold safeguarding and recognise reality are right wing christian extremists is very, very silly
What is very very silly is not realising the people you are allying yourself with. The rise of the right wing and the huge funding being put into this argument is scary www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/20/alliance-defending-freedom-multimillion-dollar-conservative-christian-group-attacking-lgbtq-rights.
And no one is attacking safeguarding, proper and efficient safeguarding needs to be in place for everyone. Just dividing on the basis of birth gender protects no-one.

I'm a dyed in the wool lefty and so are lots of the women and men who are standing up for women and girls existing rights and protections. Of course women and transwomen are different, women are female and transwomen are male. Women are discriminated because of their sex, not how they identify. I am sure the many women denied an education across the globe could just identify out of it?

What quality do women and transwomen share that makes us all women? Do you think female women deserve some things just for them away from male women? Does a teenage girl have the right to undress in a changing room with members of her sex or must she undress with male women too? Can I ask for a female caregiver if I am assaulted or must I include male women?

Why do you believe women are male and female, when did you start to believe this, who told you?

The idea that people who recognise sex, seek to uphold safeguarding and recognise reality are right wing christian extremists is very, very silly.

Make better arguments trisher.

FarNorth
Sorry for the delay in my delay in my reply. I have been far from calm since the announcement. I’ve been very worried about his/her future and how the world would treat him/her. And because of COVID restrictions we have not seen him/her. So I’ve been thinking that we don’t know him/her any more. However after a 3 hour Xmas Day lunch, of course I realise they are still the same lovely person.
He has led a very sheltered life - village with no others of his age, and private school with comparatively few pupils. When he goes to university next year he will meet a much wider range of people. I don’t think he can be sure about his gender or label until then.
But in the meantime I shall support him/her. I now have a grand-daughter and she is lovely.

Only a few reactionary people believe that women and transwomen are different most of us realise they are as much victims as those of us born women. That their fight for equality and rights is our fight. That they suffer just as much if not more than most women do. That if you seperate and divide only the powerful win. The people really opposing trans rights are in fact often right wing Christian extremists who believe that abortion and gay marriage should be banned as well. The results of advocating such prejudice could have real and substantial consequences for our freedoms. If trans rights are not supported what will go next?

Also, most transwomen make no changes to their bodies at all, it's just self id. Fully male people who wish to be seen as women. In a polite society this can be accommodated but it must not be compelled and we must have clear language so women can still retain their hard won rights and protections. Otherwise women and girls lose so that men can have more rights. Not really fair when you think about it...

NiceasMice

But since transwomen were born men they should be in the men's estate. Separately if need be.

Yes, trans rights should include extra protection where needed, freedom from discrimination. Trans rights are human rights, however trans rights are not women's rights.

But since transwomen were born men they should be in the men's estate. Separately if need be.

AmberSpyglass

Men don’t have any place in women’s prisons, I agree.

Trans women aren’t men.

What makes them not men? What do I share with a transwoman that my husband does not? What is the definition of woman that you are using? I know that women are adult human females, that's all, that's it. We are a sex.

trisher

Lot's of opinions. no facts, just rhetoric and bias.

lots of facts

What facts support your argument that women should be incarcerated with men?

Men don’t have any place in women’s prisons, I agree.

Trans women aren’t men.

I agree with that. Everyone should be safe in prison but...

Too true trisher, and women are safer in single sex prisons, glad we agree.

Almost half of male transgender prisoners are there for sexual offences, almost half. 60 out of 125 according to freedom of information requests. So what's happening there,? Looks like many men are gaming the system which is how we end up with male rapists in female prisons.

You're stating the obvious again trisher.

I am not prioritising anyone's needs. I believe everyone has a right to live safely, free from harm, regardless of their gender, even those in prison

LumpySpacedPrincess- Well said!

Lot's of opinions. no facts, just rhetoric and bias.

Women and girls are less safe in mixed sex areas. That's why single sex areas exist, prisons, hospital wards, sports etc. Males offend at a far greater rate than women, almost all sexual violence is committed by men, regardless of how they identify. Women and girls are not there as a buffer for men and boys, to make them better. we are allowed some things just for us, some boundaries, the right to say no and have that respected. Constantly prioritising men's wants and desires over women's needs must stop so that we can have a safer, fairer, less sexist society.

If Eddie wants to wear a dress then crack on mate, prefer a pair of trousers myself.

trisher
Don't ever think it is ok to put a man into the female prison estate.

It is never ok.
NEVER.

Sexual assault the figures are in the post.
Men need to learn to be kinder to feminine men. Men also need to learn to be kinder to women but if I suggested that mixed prisons might help with that I'd be immediately accused of subjecting women to horrific assaults, but apparently it's OK to subject men who are a bit different to such things.
No one in prison should be exposed to any sort of violence. A decent prison system would ensure that.

So they are going to be assaulted anyway so let's shove some males in there, nice. Transwomen are not women, they are men who wish to be seen as women. Where that conflicts with women and girls right's and protections I will centre women and girls, even if it hurts some males feelings.

We would be better fighting sexist stereotypes so both sexes can present how they want without comment. Sex is real and relevant, more relevant than individual feelings.

NiceasMice

*Women in prison are more likely to be assaulted by other women anyway*

Very observant.

What, sexually assaulted? Or just assaulted?

LumpySpacedPrincess
Well said.

Women's prisons are for women, not for men with identity issues. Women in prison are some of the most vulnerable people in society, most have suffered at the hands of male violence. Being incarcerated with males is cruel. Women are not their as a buffer for men. Men need to learn to be kinder to feminine men.

Women in prison are more likely to be assaulted by other women anyway

Very observant.