Eddie Izzard

geekesse

I think the responses to this thread explain quite clearly why it is ‘brave’ for a person who has hitherto been identified as he/him to ask to be called she/her. It’s really none of my business what a person has between their legs, or what they do with it, provided they do not break the law. If someone wants to be addressed in a particular way, how does it harm me or society to respect their wishes? There was a whole thread recently on Mrs/Miss/Ms titles, and as I recall, most posters were happy to address people with whatever title they prefer. This isn’t so very different.

Which responses do you mean, geekesse? I have seen neutral comments, such as people saying it wasn't 'brave', but nobody saying that it was anything negative.

A number of people, myself included, have said that they aren't bothered either way, which, as you say, is exactly how most people feel about those who have not changed pronoun.

Eddie Izzard is a white male.

Oh please don't start giving me 'white privilege' nonsense. I was hardly born privileged despite being white. And no-one is driving a wedge apart from militants who think that biology doesn't matter.

Loislovesstewie

www.spectator.co.uk/article/eddie-izzard-and-the-denigration-of-women. I suggest that this article explains how I feel on the subject.

Ah once again a white male trying to set women against transgender people. He doesn't really get what he is does he? Could he identify as black? Well I suppose he could but you know damn well he''s not going to, because he's a white male. They are the ones with privilege. They are the ones trying to drive wedges between the trans community and women, because both are minorities, because both suffer under patriachy, because that is how patriachy survives by pretending to support one minority whilst denigrating another, because a society where all are equal and accepted really scares the shit out of hm.

By the way, I have my own reasons for disliking Eddie Izzard which have nothing whatever to do with this topic. I’m not defending a celebrity whose work or persona I hold in any regard.

I think the responses to this thread explain quite clearly why it is ‘brave’ for a person who has hitherto been identified as he/him to ask to be called she/her. It’s really none of my business what a person has between their legs, or what they do with it, provided they do not break the law. If someone wants to be addressed in a particular way, how does it harm me or society to respect their wishes? There was a whole thread recently on Mrs/Miss/Ms titles, and as I recall, most posters were happy to address people with whatever title they prefer. This isn’t so very different.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/eddie-izzard-and-the-denigration-of-women. I suggest that this article explains how I feel on the subject.

Have several friends int he same position. Two have had full reversal and official change, another, like her- left it too late and have asked to recognition and respect. I don't get it- always been clearly female and only attracted to males.

But why should I not respect their polite request and wishes? Is it not up to me but to them.

I do think there is something a bit 'strange' about anyone who feels threatened by this and can't cope react with acceptance and tolerance. Perhaps not quite so sure themselves???

Another one who is wearing jeans and a man's t-shirt; (i.e. me) do you think I am NOT a woman then? Because by the logic of 'wearing "female" clothes' to be female, presumably I am perceived as male.

There seem to me so many things mixed up in this that it's hard to know where to start.

I agree with AmberSpyglass that it is several steps too far to compare date rape with using preferred pronouns.

At the same time, I think that telling people how to refer to you when you aren't there verges on the self-important, but I suppose that for someone as well-known as Izzard it may make sense to make an announcement rather than have to keep telling people that this is the new state of affairs. It's annoying to see it on work email signatures, though, when you have never met the sender, and are unlikely to remember their preferred pronoun out of the hundreds of other people who work there.

I also think that Izzard may well struggle if the plan is to live 'as a woman' all the time, as the impression I get is of someone who is very 'alpha', and women are rarely treated as such. A big problem for many transwomen is adjusting to not being deferred to like they were as men, and being expected to defer to others. I suspect that this will be worse for celebrities who may already be used to people hanging on their every word, and that if for no other reason Izzard may never experience life as most women do.

He's a bloke!

pensionpat you sound very calm about this change.
Do you truly believe that your grandson is now your granddaughter? If so, why do you believe that?

My grandson has told us he is now our grand daughter. It was only a month or so ago so it is all very new and we are unable to see her and chat, and just get used to her. The hardest thing to remember is the pronouns.

Slightly off tangent, but... If tomorrow, women adopt the male pronoun, do you think they will get equal pay and treatment in the work place?
I don't, but I'm enjoying imagining millions of women claiming their right to be treated and referred to as a man who prefers to dress like a woman.

trisher
It would therefore seem logical to call someone who is dressed as and looks like a woman "she".
Izzard doesn't look like a woman, to me.

How is it being self-centred to tell someone who asks, what your preferred pronoun is?
And if no-one asks?

I don't think anyone asked Izzard about preferred pronouns recently.

It was brave of Eddy to run all those marathons. Not able to answer OP on this one though.

trisher - The Op's question was is it brave to ask for particular pronouns, since the person is asking others to accommodate their feelings and beliefs that surely centres around them. Nothing wrong with asking for what you want but I just don't see it as heroic.
No idea SueDonim as I live in jeans and don't wear make up I'm probably not doing it right.

What does looked and dressed like a woman mean?

I briefly saw him sitting for a portrait in his female persona. I found him quite unsettling so I turned the programme off.

That “pronouns are rohypnol” article is one of the most disgusting things I’ve ever read. As someone who was assaulted after having something slipped into my drink years ago... yeah, using someone’s preferred pronouns is NOTHING like that.

SueDonim your article says Forcing our brains to ignore the evidence of our eyes, to ignore a conflict between what we see and know to be true, and what we are expected to say, affects us It would therefore seem logical to call someone who is dressed as and looks like a woman "she".
As for that's article. It's written by a man who has imposed his own views on Eddie Izzard's actions. I'm astoonshed that you don't realise seperating mnorities like women and trans people is part of the strategy used by patriarchs.
hugshelp How is it being self-centred to tell someone who asks, what your preferred pronoun is?

I don't define bravery as being self-centred, so not how I'd describe it, no. People can call themselves whatever they want but I'm not going to applaud them for it. Live and let live, no drama ta.

Is this the same Eddie Izzard who felt it was ok to demonise young girls because they had the audacity to be in a ladies lavatories?

medium.com/@MichaelConroy68/my-first-day-out-by-eddie-izzard-c8ff9bcae245

I’ve also just today come upon an article that speaks of the pronoun issue as akin to Rohypnol, the date rape drug.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

The statement he made that he wants to be in ‘girl-mode’ full time just makes me cringe. He’s actually reinforcing gender stereotypes.

Being an actual woman is about a lot more than hair, makeup & clothes, it’s a lived experience of existing in a patriarchal world.

My GD at 14 has just announced ‘she’ is ‘they’ or ‘them’.