Eddie Izzard

kjmpde I refer to people how I see fit.
Trying to tie oneself in knots using Newspeak is a loser's game, I think.

Funnily enough, I have had no problem with changing terminology for anything other than trans - that could be because I haven't previously encountered people claiming that their 'rights' take precedence over others' rights.

Terribull Eddie isn't fussed which pronouns you use, it turns out.
He seems to be continuing to call himself a transvestite and saying that it's all the same.
Indeed transvestite is under Stonewall's 'trans umbrella'.
If men would say they are transvestite men and men have to be kind to them, that's totally fine with me.
They are not women, however much lipstick they put on.

I don't remember who that was, that you refer to.
Was it a video or something written?

i have no problem with his way of life but i just find it difficult to know how to refer to people . i was brought up to refer to he or she by the way people looked so it is difficult to know how to change. i must congratulate Eddy for all of the charity work he does

I've been following this thread over the past couple of days. It does feel to me that there is a blurring of the lines between transvestites and some trans women (not all) as if they are seeking to take the most appealing facets of womanhood and customise a persona around those features.

Eddie exemplifies those aspects to me. I can't quite get my head around her assertions that she wishes to slip into, I think the expression is, "girly mode". I speak for myself of course, but honestly late fifties feeling girly???? just sounds bordering on ridiculously coy "woman mode" surely? if she wants to be taken seriously, maybe she doesn't, hence the trite teminology Eddie and other high profile older transwomen, for example India Willoughby exemplify an idealised version of women, all manicured nails, thigh flashing short skirts, vertiginous heels and flicky hair, such characteristics are not that prevalent among women generally in their age demographic. Speaking to my group of real life friends and conversations on line, an often defining physical phase from say 50 onwards can be the more debilitating aspects that come down the line for older women such as the menopause. So these new women don't resonate with me, they can never really understand how it feels to be a woman completely with the downsides as well as the benefits, anymore than I as a woman could know what it feels like to experience problems of the prostate. Many years ago when I occasionally watched Big Brother once a contestant was ejected from the house, there would be a compilation and heavily edited version of their "best bits". So pardon the analogy but that's often what is conveyed to me by some transwomen. I even remember India Willoughby saying something along the lines that women should shave their legs, because not to do so wasn't very nice. Trivial I know, but I don't think womenkind need a spokesperson, who for a large portion of their life had lived as a man, pointing out how the rest of womankind should do as far as physical appearances are concerned.

Far North if you read this, a while ago, you posted a link to a transwoman, can't remember her name, but she was excellent, she presented a far more balanced view of life as a transwoman imo.

I feel quite dizzy after reading about that Freemason’s policy, FarNorth! I also feel that I’m being gaslit.

How do we define the legal fiction of genuine trans people? Does this mean its all an illusion? Are there non genuine trans people?And like a broken record I ask-how do we tell the difference?

Petunia
But transgender people do have clarity, the Gender Recognition Act. It is quite clear they are protected by being defined as a legal fiction.

This legal fiction provides the necessary function needed to protect the lived experiences of genuine trans people.

Can we predict a rash of trans men wanting to join the freemasons?

Are the freemasons likely to review their sex admittance policy on the basis that too many trans men may be amongst their members?

Will Masonic men be asked to be kind to accept ever increasing numbers of trans men?

Self ID unleashes so many questions Eddie, so many questions.

Eddie actuality serves to highlight the confusion we face with trans. A biological male who uses female pronouns, wears nail varnish and feels at times, girly.

Here is a possible solution to the situation. The solution is definition.

The definition of woman has served us we over the years. We know exactly what an adult human female is. It does what is says on the tin. Lets leave that as it stands.

What we need to do is define trans. Our legal protections depend on this.

What is trans?Is biology relevant?Are we talking pre op trans, pre medication trans, part time trans? Do we treat an intact biological male the same way we treat someone who has undergone major surgeries and hormone treatment.How important are feelings in all this?

Before flinging open the doors to all, we need some clarity.

Thank you for the news.
So the Freemason are now a mixed sex organisation.
Either sex can join?

Freemasons' policy certainly is funny.

"Those now eligible to become a member of a male-only lodge include:

Men

A Freemason who joined as a man, but later underwent gender reassignment to become a woman

A woman who underwent reassignment to become a man before applying to become a Freemason"

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-45030075

Both transwomen and transmen are men.
So Masons are a beacon of sensibleness.

Funny how misinformation is posted on this thread. Freemasons accept transmen as members and allow transwomen who joined before they changed gender to remain as members.
www.gaystarnews.com/article/men-only-freemasons-will-now-allow-trans-women-to-join-but-not-cis-women/

Trans men can be as vocal as they like, yet will still be aghast that men don't accept them as males.
Hence no admittance of trans men into the Masons and no trans men gaining hereditary titles as men. Even saunas for gay men are not inviting places for trans men.

I wonder why that is?

I've been told that some transmen are quite vocal too, but men are much better able to resist them and are unlikely to be at any risk from a transman (or someone pretending to be a transman).
Hence men are less likely to see the trans issue as a problem.

By requiring that we all go along with whatever identity a transwomen feels is appropriate, we are being required to support a pretence. By politely agreeing to Eddie's chosen pronouns, and im sure we would all be polite, is this not women yet again bowing to the patriarchy. Because it is generally the trans women (men) who are so vocal, making their demands, on women.

Yes, the charities will benefit from all this publicity.

Great publicity for Izzard whichever way the pendulum swings.
In favour or not.

Sparkling

Trisher, it’s weird behaviour from a very mixed up guy. Let him carry on but we don’t have to think his way.

Well there you have it! She may be mixed up (probably the first to say so), but she has and is working through her feelings and motivation. It would be a much better world if more people did so.

Trisher, it’s weird behaviour from a very mixed up guy. Let him carry on but we don’t have to think his way.

Equalites are never thrown away by accepting that others have them. They are however threatened every time we allow someone to be persecuted or denied their human rights. Inequality requires some be thought of as less than others.

trisher
"They may however change their gender."

What do you mean by that?

If they haven't changed their biological sex, why are so many people insisting that they should be treated as if they have done - regarding sports, hospital wards, prisons, scholarships, etc?

I didn't read Petunia as presupposing there is some kind of universal experience that men have, which is different to the woman's experience.
Of course men and women share emotions, some men are more sensitive, emotionally aware than some women. To acknowledge that doesn't mean we dismiss either biological or social pressures on boys / girls /men/women to comply to social expectations.
It certainly doesn't mean that the hard fought for equalities women have achieved should simply be chucked away because Eddie Izzard (for example) feels like a girl today.

FarNorth

We know that, and it doesn't mean that someone is not the biological sex that they were born, or that they can change their sex.

They may however change their gender.

We know that, and it doesn't mean that someone is not the biological sex that they were born, or that they can change their sex.

"trisher*
tldr: personality is unconnected to biological sex.