Eddie Izzard

Its a pity that discussions such as this always end up in the toilets. But they do. So while we are blathering away about policing women's toilets and looking at genitals before someone is allowed in, we aren't talking about how the trans activists, their allies and progressive institutions and political parties are attempting to change society. Where there's a bandwagon, someone will jump onto it. The bandwagon here, just to be clear, is not the dysphoric individual who feels that their body is wrong. The bandwagon here is identity politics backed up by the vast financial, medical, political and corporate interests.

With all women's spaces and sex based rights being challenged, with us barely noticing, before long there will be no women's spaces and no women's sex based rights, because a man, such as Eddie Izzard, demands that we stop bullying him and move aside, he needs to adjust his raspberry beret.

You're right Petunia; but if you, or I, were to challenge any man who's in the women's toilets, we'd have to be prepared to "be laid out on our sorry fat arse", according to the man with a beard, tattoos and a blonde wig further upthread.

This discussion is becoming like groundhog day.

Maybe transwomen, clutching their Gender Recognition certificates, are queuing, (in a socially distanced way), around the block to get into the ladies. There wont be many though.Only a few hundred people apply for these certificates annually. Most don't bother.

The thread started with Eddie Izzard feeling girly. It moved onto his escapade in the ladies loo. He told it as an amusing anecdote, but the three school girls didn't find it so amusing. Eddie turned this around by trying to portray these girls behaviour as bullying. So we have the shy, retiring transwoman, Eddie, being hounded out of the ladies by three braying girls, schoolchildren. Hes so brave!

If I stumbled across the girly Eddie in the ladies, I hope I would be able to challenge him.

Sparkling

Trisher I don't want a man in a ladies loo. He should use the male one but they probably would not be keen. Are we supposed to alter everything to indulge a minority. l Your misplaced loyalties do great dis service to women in refuges escaping violent men.,however much he tries he looks like a big man in make up dressed as a woman. To say otherwise is silly.,

They are already there Sparkling legally they have to be. In order to get a Gender Recognition Certificate they have to live as their chosen gender for 2 years. That means using loos and changing rooms.

Izzard was on BBC breakfast this morning, it's rather a shame I missed it. After reading this thread I'm interested how Izzard comes across.

Will watch it on catch up later.

When there is no logic behind decisions those decisions are seen as partisan and therefor invalid.

Shamelessly lifting a twitter link from MN.
I will leave this here, it says it all really.

twitter.com/truethingmies/status/1343642230020517889/photo/1

From the Womens Aid web page

Can I bring my teenage sons with me?

This depends upon the individual refuge. Some allow sons up to the age of 16, while others cannot take boys over the age of 13 or 14. Very few refuges will accept male children up to the age of 18. Talk to the National Domestic Violence Helpline about other options you may have.

So it would appear quite acceptable to have blanket bans on teenage boys? Presumed guilty of goodness knows what. I can only assume it's because they are guilty of having male bodies and are not identifying as women which would immediately render them harmless and welcome.

Trisher I don't want a man in a ladies loo. He should use the male one but they probably would not be keen. Are we supposed to alter everything to indulge a minority. l Your misplaced loyalties do great dis service to women in refuges escaping violent men.,however much he tries he looks like a big man in make up dressed as a woman. To say otherwise is silly.,

No point-scoring from me, just concern that (natal-)women’s rights are being eroded.

Women, girls and vulnerable people are coerced into silence.
Women, girls and vulnerable people are gaslighted into silence.
It is a very common occurrence.

To deny this happens is somewhat astonishing.

Callistemon

Do you know them trisher?
Have you met any of the staff?
Have you listened to what they say?

They will have to be PC when speaking to the media - laws is laws! But dealing with real situations is so different to what these PC lawmakers have ever experienced.

Callistemon who can we believe then? if the orgainser and a volunteer from women's refuges report to a commons committee that they are happy with their risk assessments. If people telephoned in Scottish refuges say they are happy with the situation, who should I believe?. You obviously have more experience than me, but I wonder then, where are the whistleblowers, because although it may be possible to keep a few refuge workers quiet I can't believe they are all being silenced.

The lawmakers who have been pressurised by activists to prioritise the needs of grown men (like Izzard) over the safety of women and girls.
This is despite trans people already having legal protection.

When you consider what women regularly have to deal with in a public toilet, messy periods, miscarriage, and mobile phones etc, then I feel very sorry for teenage girls these days.

trisher

hugshelp

trisher

Blossoming

Trisher you’ve convinced me.

I’ve been following this thread with interest and discussing it with some trans friends. You’ve convinced me that self ID is a terrible idea and biological males do not belong in women’s spaces.

Had you really no preconceptions then?. Self id has been operational in Ireland (not a place known for its progressive views) for 5 years. It seems to be working well.

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/irelands-self-id-nightmare

hugshelp the story is an undeniable sad and terrible one which no one would or could support. However using it to justify transphobia is a sep too far. The failure of the system to support or deal succesfully with this young person is not the fault of transpeople.
However the person who posted this has in the past been warned by the police for harassing a transwoman and her family, condemned for trivialising the holocaust and has generally behaved in ways which no one should accept. So I prefer not to give weight to anything he posts.He was also banned from Twitter at one point.

Ah yes, he was warned after arguing with Stephanie Hayden on twitter
www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/oct/07/graham-linehan-police-warning-complaint-by-stephanie-hayden-transgender-activist-twitter

I gather she took out a case against him, along with cases against 27 other people, including a transsexual
grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/humiliation-for-stephanie-hayden
"Adrian is someone I came to know because he was giving assistance to three women Hayden was also suing. Bizarrely, in Hayden’s complaint to the court about Adrian, Hayden cited this assistance as an example of how Adrian was “harassing” Hayden. Yes, you have read that correctly – if you assist someone Hayden is suing, you run the risk of being sued by Hayden."
Firstly, Hayden was relying on the transcript of a leaked group WhatsApp conversation. Hayden then gloated on Twitter about how “Operation Nine Iron” (the name of the group chat) was a transphobic conspiracy to harass Hayden. The group name refers to Hayden having received a previous conviction for assaulting a man with a golf club.

In fact, it was nothing more than a group discussing legal tactics on how to defend claims Hayden had brought, and quite legitimately, sharing publicly available information. Adrian was bemused that Hayden, who identifies as a lawyer, and boasts about being an experienced litigator, had not understood the court would not allow Hayden to admit this transcript into evidence.

The case was dropped.

www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-transgender-lawyer-suing-graham-linehan-was-convicted-threatening-man-golf

Do you know them trisher?
Have you met any of the staff?
Have you listened to what they say?

They will have to be PC when speaking to the media - laws is laws! But dealing with real situations is so different to what these PC lawmakers have ever experienced.

I know the lives of some women are not the perfectly nice, caring, concerned protected ones some on GN experience

protected ????

Words are failing me.

I am lucky, but I hope I am aware and, although I cannot speak for her, even the woman whom I have met from the local Women's Refuge and which our women's group supports would be aghast at some of the PC remarks on here.

Sorry - political correctness is not always possible in reality.

Rosie51

You answered while I was typing. Surely you must have at least read the reason refuges don't allow male staff or teenage boys ids because some women will find the presence of a male bodied person traumatic and triggering? Surely that could also apply to a transwoman with an intact male body. Someone like Alex Drummond for example.

Rosie51 I really don't know I don't work in a refuge I'm not staying in a refuge. I can only trust the staff as I say if they are not there to protect the women they care for what hope is there for anyone?

Chewbacca if you must think people are nice to support or encourage them, to care for them, to campaign for them to fight their corner you will either go through life wearing rose coloured spectacles or support no-one. I know the lives of some women are not the perfectly nice, caring, concerned protected ones some on GN experience. I know some women are prejudiced (and GN affirms that) I have seen women shout encouragement when men and boys fight. It doesn't mean I dislike them. In my opinion the people who really dislike women are those who think they live lives like Disney in the 1950s and don't care or realise what they are actually like. It's funny as well how they don't like to have any aspect of women's behaviour brought up which challenges that view. It also seems to be the classic situation of killing the messenger.

I don't work in women's refuges so I can only post what I believe, the staff there are the experts.

No trisher. The women in those refuges are "the experts". They're the ones who have been beaten to within an inch of their lives, raped, tortured and watched as their children are traumatised by a man. They're the ones who write begging letters, explaining why they don't want a person with a penis and testicles (no matter how pretty his dress his) in their place of sanctuary. I repeat: you don't appear to like women at all.

You answered while I was typing. Surely you must have at least read the reason refuges don't allow male staff or teenage boys ids because some women will find the presence of a male bodied person traumatic and triggering? Surely that could also apply to a transwoman with an intact male body. Someone like Alex Drummond for example.

Any chance you could give your opinion on my last post at 18.59 trisher ?

Safe third spaces have been suggested but it seems transwomen are not prepared to make that accommodation, preferring that natal women have to be the accommodating people. I really don't think Stonewall mantras like "acceptance without exception" and "no discussion" are helpful. Issues like Barbie Kardashian are one result.

Should be need not bend of course !
Still who cares!

SueDonim

Blaming women for men’s violence. Wow. How about men taking some responsibility for their own actions?

I said one of the reasons SueDonim I accept that you find this thread just an excuse for point scoring but really do you need to sink so low? if you are interested at all in changing men's attitudes you bend to look at the causes of violence. If you don't care of course, don't bother.

Rosie51

^trisher are you totally unable to understand and empathise with women in refuges that are triggered by the presence of anyone with a male body, even if that male body identifies as a transwoman? Why do you think refuges don't have male staff, or allow older male children to stay with their mothers and female siblings? Not because the staff aren't able to do their best safeguarding vetting but because the presence of these individuals is traumatic to some women.^

Quoting myself here as you didn't answer my earlier post, maybe you didn't notice it trisher Do you honestly think refuges ban male staff and teenage boys from staying with their mothers because they think they are a physical danger to the women in their care?

Rosie51 I don't work in women's refuges so I can only post what I believe, the staff there are the experts. I trust them to adequately deal with, support and protect the women they take into their care.
Perhaps you can explain to me how doubting their abilities does anything at all to further the work they do or protect vulnerable women. As I said it may even stop a woman accessing the services she desperately needs.

So now you're blaming women for actively expecting and encouraging their sons to be violent by words and deeds.

You don't like women much do you trisher?