What is fair? Covid - sudden change of policy!

growstuff . Thank you for being a voice of sanity in this debate. There is so much nonsense being spouted that it makes me despair.
The first Jab just primes the immune system the 2nd kicks it into life and allows for the creation of memory cells. Personally, I hope I am not offered the Pfizer vaccine, a 12-week wait for the booster might be OK but it has never been tested.

My understanding is that for those that have already had the Pfizer vaccine, first jab, should still stick with the second appointment for the second jab.
For those that will be having the Astra Zeneca jab, it provides enough for the 2nd jab to be given as late as 12 weeks later. This way, more people will be able to be given at least partial immunity just by having the first injection.

Westendgirl I Completely agree with what you are saying about Doctors and it is true for nurses too! I tried to sign up to help having retired after 40 years in the NHS as a qualified nurse and health visitor. I was told re register, complete your experiential learning and reapply! After 40 years you do not need much retraining to give immunisations! Although professional insurance would be a problem for volunteers actually giving the injection, there are so many ancillary tasks that need to be undertaken for which volunteers could be used. Sad to be on the scrap heap when it should be all hands on deck in my humble opinion!

From the Guardian
Questions hang over UK's rollout of Oxford/AstraZeneca jab

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/30/questions-hang-over-uks-rollout-of-oxfordastrazeneca-jab

I was told today of a nursing home that the staff refused to have the jab. Wonder what happens there then....

I'm due for the 2nd jab on Tuesday evening, half an hour's drive away and I can't do night driving anymore, so I've had to book a cab. I haven't been contacted to cancel the appointment and the surgery won't be open again until Monday , so I'm in limbo. I'll try to phone up then---it's usually about an hour on hold ( You are 23rd in the queue )--but am just worried about the lack of information. Do I cancel the cab booking -or not- or---

At the risk of putting my head above the parapet, I think we older members of society should self isolate for a little longer. The vaccines should be going to those who work in hospitals and schools. We expect them to put their lives on the line. Then children can be in school, doctors, nurses, teachers and support staff can be at work. That means schools don’t have to keep sending children home, fewer hospital staff have to self isolate or take time off with children who have to be at home and they are protected. Industry can get going again. Then get back to vaccinating the vulnerable.
It seems obvious to me.

It is very unfair, but more importantly. very dangerous. And turns the whole thing into an experiment.

Pfizer specifically say that their vaccine against Covid19 must be taken in two separate doses 21 days apart. Only one dose and its ineffectual, any longer than 3 weeks and its ineffective.
UK Government planning a 12 week delay between doses for some ridiculous reason (maybe they can't get enough doses into the country?).
Not only will this political choice make those vaccinations ineffective according to the vaccine manufacturer, it will also make the vaccine unlicensed.
And yet it gets even worse than that. There are warnings that if a person has a single dose or a second dose 3 months later this process actually ENCOURAGES the Covid19 virus to adapt and work up immunity to the vaccine and then this mutation can then travel the world infecting other countries where they are vaccinating properly with a new mutation created in the UK that is immune to the vaccine.
The UK Government are simply a danger to the world and totally irresponsible. Someone needs to stop them. But WHO?

Biba where does that information come from?
Just read the whole thread and see quite a lot of people think like me.

The second dose is half of the first one. They must already have those bottled up. Problem is in the manhours needed to give a first dose while also giving a second to some. (Ok - persondose? Must I?)

The day we are ever told the truth in this country will be a day to celebrate. We are continually fobbed off with excuses, lies that are made up to confuse us. We have no choice but to take on board all we are told. How many u turns have there been by this government in the past year. So many lives have been lost that could have been prevented, with common sense, all that was needed. We have been led to believe that the country is short of money after years of austerity. So many people thrown into poverty when services have been cut. Not enough housing. Keeping the NHS short of money. Funny how more houses are going to be built to house the immigrants that land here. All on our money that we have paid in taxes all our working lives. Suddenly there are billions made available to fight this pandemic. Money thrown everywhere, with lots of scams going on. While many pensioners being forced and fined if they now don't buy a tv license. We put up with it for fear of reprisals. Seriously, we are being duped and it's been happening for years. Time to fight back I think.
Sorry, just had to release my beliefs even though it doesn't follow the main subject, just had to let go of my beliefs.

It's ridiculous to change from 3 weeks to 3months but what's more there's discussion that the second vaccine may not be the same as the original dose. They are completely different to each other and work in different ways.

Our govt.in its usual inept ways reckons they are ' on top' of things, and in control.......me thinks not

I have been following the vaccine developments with great interest and had no reservations about receiving it around March some time (according to that vaccine calculator thingy). That was, until yesterday lunchtime, when I'd finished with the UK online press and started a quick round of the overseas press. That's when I read this: www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes
I thought it was 'fake news' at first because I'd seen nothing in the UK press at all. Quick check on Google - nothing, but the NYT article was there. Called a few 'medical' friends and they'd heard nothing about this either. Only thing I could find was a Guardian article back at the start of December saying that there may be TRIALS of mixed vaccines in the UK sometime in January.
I have a question. Does anyone have any idea why this might be news in the US before the UK?
With the news about the change in timing and now the 'mix-and-match' business, I have to admit that now I'm quite glad that I need to wait until March to get the shot.

I spoke to the Receptionist at my surgery on Thursday (31st) and she says the organisation and administration of vaccines here are nothing to do with any of the local surgeries. It is all being carried out at the local sports centre by some unknown organisation, which is probably being handsomely paid for their efforts. Local GPs are not even being asked for lists of elderly/vulnerable etc patients, so one can only wonder how this is being organised sensibly. Very worrying, I thought.

Also, I think those who had their first Pfizer jab last year should be given their second one after the promised 21 days to make sure they get the same type, before limited supplies of the first jab run out. My 86 year old Uncle in Cannock said he had to sign a form to agree to his first jab, so surely he is now under contract to have his second jab on 7th January? The whole event is rapidly falling into a fiasco, it seems, with people’s safety quite far down the list of priorities. Who will be responsible if there is an insufficient supply of the first (Pfizer) vaccine when it is urgent for all the early recipients to receive their second jabs?

Totally dismayed that my 90 year old mum may now not receive her 2nd dose on Tuesday 12th Jan. I just hope that her Surgery honour that appointment to give her a 2nd dose exactly 21 days after her first, as recommended by Pfizer. I do not want her put further at risk through ths new policy of the government.

I'm not sure the receptionist is quite right. The clinical commissioning groups are responsible for organising the programme. The CCGs already have lists of people on various lists.

In my area, groups of GP practices are working together and have hired the local sports centre for the vaccinations to take place.

Each area is responsible for commissioning, so some might have decided to pay for third party providers, in a similar way to pharmacists providing flu jabs. They will only be paid the same as GPs. Some GPs have opted out of delivering the programme, despite the financial incentive, because they don't think they can cope with the extra work.

PS. I agree it all seems to be somewhat shambolic.

nannypiano I was agreeing with your post, until I read about immigrants. It seems you've fallen into the trap of scapegoating them.

Agree: Garnet25, Growstuff, Whitewavemark2, SuzieFlo, 4allweknow, Biba70, Daftbag
PamelaJI - yes Mums 2nd dose cancelled on Thursday when unusually, she phoned me at work - I told her not to worry there must be some mistake - as the Phizer vaccine had to be given 21 days max. apart & I'd sort it out the next day for her. Lol. Then I got home & saw the news!

Chicken: Yes go for the jab if they've not cancelled it. The GPs are not agreeing with The changes And you have signed a contract for 2 jabs within 21 days.
Margaret Keenan - the first person in UK to have the vaccine had her second jab a few days ago.
Kate: I'm shocked an MP sneaked in by the back door so to speak.

Here in the South we've been in Tier 4 since December 18.
On December 29 I researched her present vaccine coverage - 52% the second boosts it to 91%-95% depending on data.
Now 'they' - the government seem to be saying different!

I know the Mail isn't everyone's choice of reading but the much loved JVT has written an article about this in the paper

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9107097/New-12-week-jab-policy-save-lives-says-deputy-chief-medical-officer-Jonathan-Van-Tam.html

It is a disgrace. We have supposedly been following the science for 10 months and now because it doesn't fit the narrative we are casting it aside. Everyone knows that medicines should be taken as directed by the manufacturer or else their efficacy cannot be guaranteed. Vaccines are no different. Everyone who has had a first jab should demand their second as promised.

Tweedle24

growstuff

BigBertha1

You might call me selfish but I was glad when I heard the change of plan in order to give more vulnerable people a first dose sooner. I am really hoping DH gets his soon.

Even though it possibly won't give him much protection and he's going to have to carry on shielding, social distancing and wearing a mask, etc. as before?

Yes, we shall have to carry on social distancing and wearing masks for some time. There is no definite evidence yet that the vaccine stops transmission. It only protects the vaccinated person,
The point of vaccinating as many people as possible, beyond the immediate benefit of saving lives, is to give the virus nowhere to go so it would mostly disappear. This would happen naturally eventually, but, at the cost of many more lives. Previous pandemics took up to 50% of populations. That is what the vaccine is hoping to avoid,

Oh come on! We haven't had a pandemic that bad since 1348 and this one is nowhere near as serious. It's comments like that that put the panic into pandemic.

Grannyrose - And it's attitudes like that that ensure the virus can stay around and Kill.
In the last few days I have a friend of a friend who has been put into induced coma another on a ventilator & 3 others just out of hospital still trying to recover. One went to hospital with something else!
You're right nothing this bad since 14 century but this time we know more.
Scientists have talked of a bad virus coming for some time. We didn't listen - and many are not listening now.
Last time it was called the Plague - A virus spread by animals ........
If left to it's own devices what then?

Am hoping Dr Sarah Jarvis will be on Jeremy Vine tomorrow to clear it all up for us!

nannypiano...'.just had to let go of my beliefs..'

Have your beliefs changed now you've let go of them then?