British class system

I think upperclass is not one which sociologists recognise

What they had was land but it was all tied up in trusts and they always seemed to be incredibly hard up and in debt, whilst having jewels they couldn’t sell.

It was very weird.

So class can be defined in a number of ways.

Some are

Based on wealth

Value system

Relationship to the means of production

Based on caste

No, alas they were never rich and it didn’t last ?

Peasblossom, I think you define the three categories rather well. Thank you.

you're not your

So your upper class now Peasblossom . So is that titled or just amazingly rich?

My Dad was a labourer, so I suppose I was working class. Education and subsequent career made me middle class. I married into upper class.

What I found was that working class and upper class were both at ease with who they were and the way they lived and both hated pretension, people trying to be what they were not.

They usually said what they thought outright.

The poor old middle class were always worried about what people thought and were always striving to be one rung higher, one bit better. And I never got the hang of the sideways swipe of “I told her tactfully”?

"is it" not "is if".

Oh, and Septimia I always thought every individual was important.

It's very difficult to define class really, isn't it? Do you base it upon where you were born, the type of home you grew up in, the area you grew up in, the school you attended, the education you acquired, how much money you have in the bank, who you mix with, who you marry, what your career/job is, your accent, what your parents did/do and so on?

To fit into one particular category is not so easy for many, is if?

The Great British Class Survey of 2013 gave us:

1. A wealthy "elite;"

2. A prosperous salaried "middle class" consisting of professionals and managers;

3. A class of technical experts;

4. A class of ‘new affluent’ workers,

5. An ageing traditional working class,

6. A ‘precariat’ characterised by very low levels of capital

7. A group of emergent service workers.

I always thought that it was not the person themselves who decided but those who, from the outside measured their worth and that it often doesn't matter in the least to the individual but may do to economists and gossips.

Kindness, decency and honesty can be found in any 'class', as can their opposites. In those respects, class is irrelevant.

Many people who think they're somebody important are pains in the neck, whereas people who really are somebody (for whatever reason) are often very down to earth.

*minor aristocratic family (not teenager!)

When I was teenager, I worked for a minor aristocratic teenager. I quickly picked up that to be working class (in their eyes) was something to be embarrassed about. They pushed random single posh blokes at me, I suppose seeing it as a kindness, if I could 'catch' one.

The only thing about the middle classes I ever really envied was their easy access to education. As soon as I was able, I put myself through uni and then did a post grad. I felt a bit like Rita, from Educating Rita. When I got to the end of it all, I realised that I still identified with where I came from. I'd just read a few more books than the people I grew up with.

Yes. Some already as I was typing this. Very encouraged by what I read so far.

I would need to see an actual structure as to how 'class' is defined. I would say I am in a better position than my grandparents and my Mum but that would be totally due to their sacrifices and encouragement. If I were to place myself in a different 'class' to them (think I'm even finding the word a bit offensive) that would be a kind of barrier between us which I would find unthinkable. Hopefully what used to be the class structure is fading into oblivion. Actually thought it pretty much had. Very interested to read other thoughts here as they emerge.

I don't think we change class in our own lifetime - I was born into working class but have lived a middle class lifestyle all my adult life. But I still think of myself as working class. My children are certainly middle class as are my grandchildren.

Take someone like David Beckham who's extremely rich but he'll always be working class.

That's my take on it anyway! Despite many social changes, and the blurring of the edges I think we are still a class-based society.

I agree. I still identify as working class, although I have been laughed at for that many times. My occupation, financial status and natural inclination to be bookish. But I sound working class. Grew up in a working class area. Got my education as an adult.

Depends how you define class I think.