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A step too far?

(50 Posts)
Missfoodlove Mon 22-Feb-21 13:27:35

This article is headlining in our local paper today.
I am appalled.
It is brainwashing.
Opinions please.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjhmtPQy_3uAhWLiVwKHbpTDc4QxfQBMAJ6BAgHEAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hulldailymail.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fhull-east-yorkshire-news%2Fhowden-school-ditches-raleigh-drake-5030711&usg=AOvVaw16zjX2282ID8YJJ4AKCi-U

paddyanne Mon 22-Feb-21 13:38:53

I dont think it is ,giving children modern day "heroes" to aspire to is much more helpful than people from hundreds of years ago who they cant connect with .I'd be happy for my GC to aspire to be Marcus Rashford or Greta Thunberg ,young folk who can get things done in the 21st century .I dont think most have anything in common with "Sir" Francis or "Sir" Walter ,however important their actions were 500 years ago .

Ilovecheese Mon 22-Feb-21 13:42:20

Sounds like a very good idea to me. Heroes for their achievements that todays children can try to emulate.
Better than piracy surely.

Bridgeit Mon 22-Feb-21 13:57:04

I think we should keep what we have with explanation plaques of that era . Adding status who represent the what is happening in the here & now.
I don’t see why it has to be one or the other.

MagicWand Mon 22-Feb-21 14:20:32

Paddyanne, I agree.

No one at the school is airbrushing these men out of history Missfoodlove, they’ve just reviewed the relevance of the names of school houses. I’m sure the characters being replaced will still be taught in the history curriculum.

The fact that the children chose these new names also negates the brainwashing element here. These remarkable young people are our children’s modern day heroes and what a great bunch they are! They have already achieved so much whether you agree with what they stand for or not.

The fact that these are the people the children have chosen makes me feel very positive about the values of today’s children.

Doodledog Mon 22-Feb-21 14:51:30

I don't understand how it is brainwashing. It is saying that these people are heroes now, and they are the ones chosen by the children, so they agree.

In a few years' time, there may be another vote and different people chosen.

If this is brainwashing, what was the system that went before?

Anniebach Mon 22-Feb-21 15:00:40

I am not sure, the role models are young, if they were to make
big mistakes in the future ?

I am against statues being taken down.

janeainsworth Mon 22-Feb-21 15:17:08

I agree that the modern ‘heroes’ are probably more relevant to the children than Drake, Nelson or Raleigh.

What I didn’t like was the description of them in the child’s letter as disgusting and despicable. They were of their time and they were all brave men and leaders.
Nelson’s Prayer before Trafafalgar doesn’t strike me as the thoughts of a despicable man, but those of an honourable one.
‘May the great God, whom I worship, grant to my country and for the benefit of Europe in general, a great and glorious victory, and may no misconduct in anyone tarnish it; and may humanity after victory be the predominant feature in the British fleet. For myself individually, I commit my life to him that made me; and may His blessing alight on my endeavours for serving my country faithfully. To him I resign myself, and the just cause which is entrusted to me to defend. Amen.’
We visited Portsmouth a few years ago and going aboard HMS Victory and seeing the spot where Nelson died, was very moving.
So I would like children to be given a balanced picture of our national heroes.

FWIW our school houses were named after long-dead headmasters who meant nothing to us. What was more important was who our House Captain was and how well we did in the various inter-house competitions.

janeainsworth Mon 22-Feb-21 15:23:32

Following on from Annie’s comment
the role models are young, if they were to make big mistakes in the future?
I wonder if we are placing too heavy a burden on the shoulders of GT and MR, by making them into heroes.
They now have enormous reputations to live up to and it’s all too easy to imagine a few years down the line, the savaging they will get at the hands of the media and the Twitterati if there’s even a slight financial or relationship indiscretion.

AGAA4 Mon 22-Feb-21 15:31:58

Maybe there should be more women heroes from the past eg Florence Nightingale or Marie Curie.
It may not be a good idea to make people as young as Rashford and Thunberg heroes just yet.

Cass64 Mon 22-Feb-21 15:36:27

We are judging yesterday's people with today's values you can't do that it's like judging a caveman for not being vegan ..
As for the young Heroes they are not infallible Marcus Rashford has done a lot for poor children on the other hand he had bought a dog in Russia so that he could have its ears cropped (that means they cut them off) so he may be a hero for underprivileged children and for school meals but among dog's lovers his name is like something you find on the bottom of your shoe.

FarNorth Mon 22-Feb-21 15:46:34

I think it's a good idea not to have house names of long dead men who mean nothing to the children.

I expect there had to be good reasons for choosing their 'heroes', so they wouldn't end up with a trio of 'celebs'.

If the school now includes teaching & discussion about the people named, I think it will be very valuable for the pupils.

AmberSpyglass Mon 22-Feb-21 15:49:02

How is that brainwashing?!

Blossoming Mon 22-Feb-21 15:51:25

I think it’s a great idea. Schools are there to educate the young, not celebrate nostalgia.

Greyduster Mon 22-Feb-21 15:52:15

I agree with Janeainsworth. Children should be given a balanced view of our history, in context, and our national heroes, rather than have them consigned to some sort of scrap heap with ill informed aprobrium heaped upon them! And what does it say about a school which has a house system named for these men then to say:
“None of our pupils knew who they were (beyond sailors) nor could they relate to them.”. Well teach them, for God’ sake and then let them form their own opinions!

Redhead56 Mon 22-Feb-21 15:53:13

Pupils are more advanced now than ever they have free will to choose their own role models. Can you brainwash youngsters now? not sure about that they are very articulate these days.
We are supposed to learn from history and are to meant to progress because of it. Having said that I am not convinced as slavery still exists in different forms.
I don't believe that statues or landmarks should be pulled down because of what they represent. History can't be erased most of Liverpools buildings have carvings of slaves on the facades. A lot of the streets were named after people who gained their wealth through the slave trade. There would be nothing left if they pulled these buildings down.

suziewoozie Mon 22-Feb-21 16:01:47

I think this is a lovely story and an interesting choice by the children. .

Chestnut Mon 22-Feb-21 16:07:25

AGAA4

Maybe there should be more women heroes from the past eg Florence Nightingale or Marie Curie.
It may not be a good idea to make people as young as Rashford and Thunberg heroes just yet.

I agree these people are new kids on the block and I'm not sure they qualify for such reverence just yet. On the other hand they seem to know nothing about the original people. Quote: None of our pupils knew who they were (beyond sailors) nor could they relate to them. That implies they have not been taught about them which is pretty poor as the houses were named after them. If you don't teach the children then of course they won't know who they are!

suziewoozie Mon 22-Feb-21 16:12:59

Well I’ve no idea what the school was allowed to teach given the centrally imposed national curriculum. Has anyone else?

janeainsworth Mon 22-Feb-21 17:38:58

Redhead Can you brainwash youngsters now? not sure about that they are very articulate these days

Of course you can. What do you think has happened to the children and young people who join extremist organisations, go off to fight in the Middle East or join far-right organisations here in the U.K.?

janeainsworth Mon 22-Feb-21 17:41:59

Blossoming Schools are there to educate the young, not celebrate nostalgia
Is teaching history ‘celebrating nostalgia’?

BlueBelle Mon 22-Feb-21 17:43:32

I bet none of you would complain if they used capt Tom

BlueBelle Mon 22-Feb-21 17:45:14

I think the kids have made some good choices and I think each generation should choice their own heroes not have to live with long dead MEN.who made their fortune through dubious means

suziewoozie Mon 22-Feb-21 18:11:46

BlueBelle

I bet none of you would complain if they used capt Tom

Or the Queen 😀

suziewoozie Mon 22-Feb-21 18:12:23

janeainsworth

Blossoming Schools are there to educate the young, not celebrate nostalgia
Is teaching history ‘celebrating nostalgia’?

It depends how it’s taught