Shamima Begum

I think if you say that children who have been groomed hold responsibility for their actions it sets another very dangerous precedent.

Also if she was white would you think any differently?

Nope. I felt exactly the same about that white boy.
? Jhadi John. On the spectrum.

I agree with sodapop. I feel heartfelt sorry for the girl, but who knows what is going on in her mind!

I have just finished reading a book called Guest House for Young Widows, among the women of ISIS by Azadeh Moaveni which makes interesting reading into why women joined Isis. Basically most them were groomed, in the case of Shaminama the authorities were well aware of her grooming and also of others. They interviewed her I believe 3 times at her school as they believed she was at risk with grooming, but didn't inform her parents,. They just asked her her to take a letter home, which of course she didn't. She was 15 and as many of you know at a rebellious stage of her life, dreaming of a different life. I totally agree with Grammaretoo and her views there are many more far more dangerous than her. Also if she was white would you think any differently? I believe she was let down by our government and should be allowed back here for her appeal.

This is why juries consist of 12 people, no one is right but there is value in every one's understanding and experience.

Agree with Oopsadaisy1.
She is a threat and you can`t un-brainwash someone.
Live by the sword,die by the sword.

2 threads on this waste of space.

One here under ‘Chat’ and the other under ‘News & Politics’.
I think most posters swerve the N&P thread and feel more comfortable under a ‘chat’ heading.

Perhaps her legal team want her back in the UK so they can start lining their pockets with legal aid cash from soft touch Britain, who is paying her legal fees now?

I have no sympathy for her. If we let her back to fight her case we open the door for others.

Well I wouldn't be surprised to see her returned to the UK because as things stand, the law is an ass.

Since the news broke about the man who'd helped Philpott kill 6 children in that house fire is being freed on licence in May after having served 8 years of a 17 year sentence, my confidence in the laws of this country are at an all time low.

I'm left to feel that I don't care any more at what happens, or doesn't, to anyone.

I posted this on the other Begum thread...

Shamima Begum has given an interview to the BBC

Asked about the Manchester terror attack in which 22 people were killed she told the BBC broadcaster in an interview: "I do feel that it's wrong that innocent people did get killed.

"It's one thing to kill a soldier that is fighting you; it's self-defence, but to kill women and children..."

Begum said it was "just people like the women and children in Baghuz that are being killed right now unjustly, the bombings.

"So It's a two-way thing really. Because women and children are being killed in Islamic State right now, and it's a kind of retaliation... their justification was it's retaliation so I thought 'OK, that is a fair justification."

No compassion from me. She’s a traitor. She & her legal team can use a video link to support her case. I hope she loses it too.

It was her lack of any remorse during those inteviews which hardened my attitude to her. I agree with the court decision.

maddyone

^The only voice we haven’t heard is Begum’s.^

Yes we have. She was interviewed by the British press some months ago, when she made the chilling remarks about beheadings not bothering her. We know what she wants, she wants to return. That’s hearing her voice!

Completely agree. She made her feelings perfectly clear when she was interviewed. The right decision has been made. Absolutely no way she should come back.

If she had gone whilst a child, later regretted it, repented and returned home then I would feel sympathy.

That didn’t happen and she is a danger to this country.

I believe the court decision is the right one.

The only voice we haven’t heard is Begum’s.

Yes we have. She was interviewed by the British press some months ago, when she made the chilling remarks about beheadings not bothering her. We know what she wants, she wants to return. That’s hearing her voice!

Whether or not she would be a danger to society if she was allowed to return, my worry is about all the others who have already returned. Some are in prison, but many are walking the streets, just the same as us. In my opinion, they should never have been allowed back. As for her, I’m happy for her to stay where she is.

I have posted this on the other Begum thread and agree with you franbern

The power this government is using to kick out a British citizen without a fair and transparent trial sets a very dangerous precedent.

The only voice we haven’t heard is Begum’s.

Of course she would have to live under surveillance for a long period of time. The security services have so many people under surveillance, both overt and covert, that they are stretched to absolute breaking point. Why should we have to add to that and the expense to the taxpayer which would inevitably be involved. As for her family keeping a watch on her - yeah, right! They did a wonderful job of knowing where she was and what she was up to when she was planning to leave! So no, she shouldn’t be allowed to come back.

I agree with the court decision. Hopefully it will act as a warning to others who may decide to leave and join Islamic State.

I do not have much sympathy with this young woman.

However.....I am much more concerned that any Home Secretary has the right (it is legal?) to remove British Citizenship from ANYONE!!!

Surely, this sets a very dangerous precedent for the future. Does this mean that an extremely right wing HS could find excuses to remove citizenship from people due to their more left-wing activities (or vice versa)???

This woman was born and brought up in the East End of London. Most definitely she IS (de facto) a British Citizen - no matter what Pritti Patel or anyone else states. She should be here answering charges against her.

Must say I’m torn on this.

On the one hand, she was still just a child when she left, and shouldn’t be judged for making such a stupid decision.
Plus I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the 3 girls (all probably leading somewhat restricted lives at home) had vague, Mills-and-Boon-y ideas of running away to marry a handsome warrior - and doing it in the name of Allah, which made it perfectly all right.
I doubt they ever imagined what turned out to be a horrific reality, instead of some (in their minds) Islamic State utopia.

On the other, I dare say any anti-West ideas have been firmly entrenched since then, and even if she were to escape prison, she’ll still cost the taxpayer a fortune in constant monitoring and presumably living on benefits for goodness knows how long.

I do not think she should be allowed back. She casually stated that she did not think about the beheaded heads in dustbin, and she also did not think about the torture of the Yazidi women.
You are of the age of criminal responsibility at 10, she was 15. At that age you know right from wrong.

In retrospect, and in spite of being appalled about everything associated with Islamic State including the complicity of some of the women, taking into account the age she was when she left, I would reluctantly let her come home. I just think some young people are very susceptible to suggestion grooming and other malign influences during teen years, and whilst nothing evil or life changing happened to me, I don't think I was the sharpest tool in the box at aged 15 and a few years beyond that.

Of course she would have to live under surveillance for a long period of time. I think she's had a pretty harsh learning curve and has paid a heavy price for her naivety.

I suspect her husband’s nationality may assist her.
Her babies died. The boy born in this camp had pneumonia (I think)

The age of criminal responsibility in England is 10 so legally she would be deemed to have an understanding of her actions. This 15 year old child -,along with her friends - managed to have an entire hidden life, deceived her parents, made travel plans either directly or through an intermediary, accessed travel documents, got her luggage out of the house unseen, travelled to and through some hazardous countries and territories to reach her final destination. She walked away from her home and family without it seems so much as a backward glance. Even with help, that would surely all be quite daunting for a mere child. She is not stateless, she can claim Pakistani citizenship but doesn’t want to, and what is the situation if she has a legal Dutch husband? Does that give her any rights in the Netherlands? .

quote from twitter:
UK government says as a 15 year old you can’t:
- Vote
- Have sex
- Drink
- Join the army
- Get married
- Leave home
- Buy a pet
- Get a piercing

But apparently Shamima Begum knew exactly what she was doing when she was groomed online by ISIS extremists and lured out to Syria