Ghislaine Maxwell’s prison experience ‘torture’

Yes, I too was connected to someone who lost his pension to Maxwell, but Ghislaine Maxwell had nothing to do with that.

The USA prison system is brutal, for inmates and those on remand. Any campaign should be against the inhuman conditions in American prisons.

The Australian academic taken hostage by the Iranians after attending a conference in Iran was kept in solitary confinement in a 2m cube cell for 7 months.www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-56339817

suziewoozie

No one is suggesting that we all campaign for everything - I was simply questioning your assertion that we campaign for things that affect us. We make choices - and some campaign for some causes that don’t directly affect them. That’s all I was saying,

I didn't assert that at all.

Callistemon, I'm not surprised that you have no sympathy for her, particularly in those circumstances. Nor do I, as I can't honestly see how she's not guilty as charged, but I don't wish her ill just because she hasn't campaigned for prisoners' rights.

I did actually mean touch us emotionally.
Sometimes that's through experience, sometimes it's a profound empathy, sometimes it's because we feel a need for fairness and justice.

Callistemon

A member of my family lost her pension because of Maxwell.
I cannot summon up any sympathy.

When the brothers went on trial for their involvement in their father’s fraud ( they were acquitted) I remember they declared themselves bankrupt but that Ian( at least) did the time honoured device of transferring assets to his wife’s name. Meanwhile, back with the pensioners .......

A member of my family lost her pension because of Maxwell.
I cannot summon up any sympathy.

I suppose it depends on what is meant by what affects us - I was taking it to mean affects us as in practically but of course it can mean affects us as in emotionally. I’m afraid I’m just short of sympathy for the Maxwell family - somehow after RMs ‘falling off his boat’ and huge debts, the family prospered whilst as posted above, thousands and thousands of innocent people faced poverty . So really I just can’t take take Ian Maxwell ‘s complaints on behalf of his sister seriously. This probably makes me a bad person ?

No one is suggesting that we all campaign for everything - I was simply questioning your assertion that we campaign for things that affect us. We make choices - and some campaign for some causes that don’t directly affect them. That’s all I was saying,

Callistemon

There are innocent people living in far worse conditions through no fault of their own, Doodledog and I try to do my bit for just a tiny proportion of them.

So no. But innocent until proved guilty so she should have access to fresh clean water and an hour's exercise a day.
As for edible food - it depends on the definition of edible.

Innocent or guilty anyone should have clean water, food and some exercise. We only know what we’re told about her prison conditions.

suziewoozie

NotSpaghetti

Doodledog I agree. I think we campaign for things that touch us.

I don’t think you can speak for everyone - many people campaign for causes that will never directly impact them as well as causes that may or have.

Well either way, there aren't enough hours in the day for everyone to campaign for everything they believe in, and it's nonsense to suggest that people should only benefit from those for which they have personally campaigned.

Even if there were, giving 30 seconds per cause isn't going to get it very far - surely it's better to choose the causes that matter to you (whether they touch you personally or not) and do it properly?

As I say, I haven't campaigned for prisoners' rights (although I might buy a raffle ticket or put a quid in a bucket if asked) but that doesn't mean that I have no opinion on the matter, or that jails should have special wings for campaigners, any more than hospitals should only treat those who have campaigned for research into illnesses from which they are suffering.

There are innocent people living in far worse conditions through no fault of their own, Doodledog and I try to do my bit for just a tiny proportion of them.

So no. But innocent until proved guilty so she should have access to fresh clean water and an hour's exercise a day.
As for edible food - it depends on the definition of edible.

NotSpaghetti

Doodledog I agree. I think we campaign for things that touch us.

I don’t think you can speak for everyone - many people campaign for causes that will never directly impact them as well as causes that may or have.

trisher

No one should be kept in such conditions, but I do wonder if it is related to what happened to Epstein. Is this place the safest possible for her? Is there a danger if she was moved to somewhere less constricting her life might be threatened?

I’m sure it is - they can’t afford another ‘suicide’ so she’s under tight control inside. They daren’t let her out on bail because she’s a flight risk and/or there are plenty of well connected powerful people who would like her to ‘disappear ’.

Doodledog I agree. I think we campaign for things that touch us.

Callistemon

Was she campaigning to improve the conditions of prisoners on remand before this? Campaigning for the rights of women and girls?
No?

Then I am not sorry for her.

Oh, come on. People don't campaign for everything they hope to be protected from - we can only do so much.

I don't campaign for prisoners' rights (do you?) - does that mean that I deserve to be imprisoned in bad conditions before I am found guilty? The system has to protect everyone - not just campaigners, as do all public systems.

Your logic suggests that only campaigners for, say, cancer research should benefit from that, but not from heart disease research unless they campaign for that too, and so on.

I also wonder if they ever think about those poor defrauded Mirror pensioners.
No, I doubt it.
It wasn't just those who worked directly for the Daily Mirror, there were other subsidiaries too which were part of the Mirror Group and lost their pensions, not to mention shareholders in the scheme.

Was she campaigning to improve the conditions of prisoners on remand before this? Campaigning for the rights of women and girls?
No?

Then I am not sorry for her.

No one should be kept in such conditions, but I do wonder if it is related to what happened to Epstein. Is this place the safest possible for her? Is there a danger if she was moved to somewhere less constricting her life might be threatened?

My problem with this issue is the bleating of the Maxwells about prison conditions they couldn’t give a stuff about if it didn’t affect them. I also wonder if they ever think about those poor defrauded Mirror pensioners.

GillT57

Jennifereccles having concerns about the conditions in which a remand prisoner is being held does not mean I have more sympathy for perpetrators of crime than I do for the victims. As for your comments about drug addicts, alcoholics, those with a chaotic upbringing.......I can't even be bothered to try and make you understand.

I couldn't agree more. Remand should definitely not be punitive. As I said upthread, I don't think that prisons should be (in themselves) either. Others may disagree about prisons for convicted criminals, but how can anyone argue that remand centres or remand wings should be anything other than places where people awaiting trial are staying until they have a chance to make their case? To do so makes a nonsense of 'innocent until proven guilty'.

I'm not remotely in sympathy with GM, and would be more than surprised if she is not guilty as charged (regardless of the outcome of the trial), but the system has to work on principle, not based on individual cases.

She is in MDC Brooklyn.
In 2019, one former warden, Cameron Lindsay said that "The M.D.C. was one of the most troubled, if not the most troubled facility in the Bureau of Prisons
According to Wikki.

I think prisons in America are even worse than here. I think that anyone who knows anything about the prison system here in the UK knows it needs serious money to really work with people to give them a better chance of rehabilitation.
Our recidivism rate is shocking.

As to Maxwell... yes, I personally think she's guilty however I still feel that everyone should be considered innocent until they are found to be guilty. I believe she is in appalling conditions - and so (probably) is everyone else there. It is a prison with many, many charges against it and staff have repeatedly been taken to court for breaching protocols, for "punishments" and for not implementing changes laid down by prosecutors. This prison is not normally used for long stays - only for short remand periods and short sentences. She should have been sent somewhere else if they were going to take this long getting to trial. I have read a former inmate say that people are allowed out of the cell for 30 mins three times a week to make phone calls, shower and talk with their legal team (all in the 30 mins).
Detainees at MDC Brooklyn have NO access to outdoor space though there is a high wall with a metal grill at the top in one area.

Do you remember the US prison that went a week or more with no heating about two years ago when it was freezing cold outside? The one where prisoners were sending SOS messages? Well this was it. Anyone who complained was sent to solitary.

There is less oversight of prisons in America than the UK too as they have different jurisdictions.

As a general point, it seems counter productive to not try to help people move forward into better lives. If we make it hard for prisoners to learn anything new and we subject them to degrading conditions it's no wonder so many have little regard for "society".

Oh I understand perfectly well GillT57

I am sure everyone understands how all these excuses are continually trotted out by the criminals’ human rights lawyers but they are just that- excuses.

Oh dear what a shame.......

Maybe her definition of inedible is rather different to the average prisoners

Is she in a prison in a peaty area? If so, the "brown water" is natural and perfectly drinkable- and in some places the norm for many people who are NOT in prison. Inedible food should not be given to anyone, even convicted prisoners

Jennifereccles having concerns about the conditions in which a remand prisoner is being held does not mean I have more sympathy for perpetrators of crime than I do for the victims. As for your comments about drug addicts, alcoholics, those with a chaotic upbringing.......I can't even be bothered to try and make you understand.