State Pension rise.

Back to the OP or am I on the wrong thread?

I don't see how you can apply tax to state pension rates. A basic state pension does not pay tax. Add to this the complexity of the taxes from multiple countries and you are just muddying the water. The complexity of the pension systems in other countries makes it difficult to see who is ahead and who behind too.

At the end of the day, you will add to the judgement of who you vote for when you consider your opinion of the fairness or not of the state pension - if that is important to you.

Pippa I think differentials are a factor in pay negotiations & how much we ‘need’ people is just another factor, not the main way pay is determined.
Training requirements & qualifications are important too & jobs requiring similar training levels, continuing education requirements & personal responsibility have similar salary expectations.

janeainsworth

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

But that isn't how we pay people, is it. We pay them according to how much we need them and how difficult/easy it is to get them.

LesLee7 Where did the idea come from that the pension contributions are a savings account on which we draw? No pension works in that way. You are buying an assurance that you will have a pension until you die. It may be more than you paid in, it may be less but there is no way we can each save the exact amount.

Thank you Urmstongran- the OP was correct in suggesting that Tories looked after pensioners but it’s not just with annual increase.

The taking of so many people out of taxation altogether is a massive benefit not available in countries paying higher rates of state pension.

Agreed suzie.
I’m not sure it’s helpful to nurses as a profession to be portrayed by the various media as underpaid minions - if I were a nurse I’d rather be seen as a well-qualified professional person deserving of recognition & appropriate remuneration for that and I’d be even more concerned about working conditions (long shifts, inflexibility about arrangements, bullying) and being able to provide good care for patients which I think is rather more contentious than salary.
I think it was the President of the Royal College of Nursing being interviewed who, after commenting on the proposed 1% increase, went on to express concern about working conditions and understaffing leading to less than adequate care for patients.
It is a vicious circle - poor working conditions lead to loss of morale leading to more nurses leaving and difficulty in recruitment.

janeainsworth

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

Right - crossed wires a bit. I don’t disagree- I was more questioning a sort of assumption that their starting salary was good. I guess we agree they are neither under nor over paid?

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

LesLee7 The next generation is paying for your pension. However much you paid in NICs, nobody invested it in a pot with your name on. It was used to pay the previous generation of pensioners.

A good point well made Pantglas.
?

janeainsworth That's the problem with averages. If the average nurse pay is about £35K, there will be 6 or 7 on £25k for every one on £100k.

Chardy

Elusivebutterfly I knew nothing about the 2 tier pension. I would have like to have been told that if I worked another year my pension would be £2.5k more. But then I never had a letter about changes to SPA either, I just heard rumours in 90s and had no clue about Osborne's stitch-up.
As a single mum and unofficial carer, all these bits would make a difference to me now.
Having said that, there are women whose lives have been destroyed by these changes, health, loss of home - nightmare

I'm not sure how you worked out that your pension would have been an additional £2.5k. Please could you explain.

I've paid voluntary NICs for the last four years because my earnings were below the threshold for NICs. I've paid the maximum amount and for each additional year of payments, my pension is worth about £250 per annum.

If I'm correct and you were 60 in 2013, I can't get your figures to add up.

janeainsworth

Suzie some more detail about nurses’ pay from the nurses.co.uk website
“ What salary do you earn with each NHS banding?
NHS pay is operated in a banding system that was introduced in 2004.This system allocates specific roles and levels of seniority to specific bands, and therefore, salaries.As already mentioned, newly qualified Nurses enter the workforce at Band 5.The salary ranges at each banding beyond this level are:• Band 6: £31,365 to £37,890• Band 7: £38,890 to £44,503• Band 8: £45,753 to £87,754• Band 9: £91,004 to £104,927”

The nurses’ starting salary of £24.9K is comparable to junior doctors’ starting salary of £28K, and a teacher’s starting salary of £25.7K outside London.

Those differentials seem pretty fair to me.

Not sure what point you’re making - I was making teo,points I think - that many people covered by the pay rise earn less than nurses and that their starting salary can only be judged relatively. I think the comparison with teachers is fairer than junior doctors. But either way, nurses are hardly at the top end of starting salaries. I’m not saying they should be at all but then that we can only judge relatively and not absolutely ( which I think was happening)

monica I was actually expanding on and supporting your comment Nurse's pay may be low, but not that low
It was the OP who suggested nurses were getting £3 a month and if you look at page 1 of this thread, you’ll see that I actually corrected the OP’s arithmetic at 9.00am yesterday morning.

As far as I'm aware the next generation aren't paying for my pension. I worked full time for 38 years and along with my employer contributed to my own pension.

I then lost out as I was born in August 1954. I was aware of the new flat rate pension so thought well at least I'll get that - but no, as I worked for a local authority I get so much deducted.

I was offered VR a few years ago and took it (in hindsight a blessing as my Mum and sister became ill so spent almost 3 years travelling across country until they passed away - which I couldn't have managed working full time) .

I was finally due to claim state pension last year and with everything going on thought I'd delay it to get a bit of an increase. Then working it out decided it wasn't worth it as to get back the unclaimed pension would take many years (about 17 I think). So I claimed it and got it backdated. Knew it was taxable but what a nightmare as they now say I owe tax and have messed with my tax codes.

I thought about buying some NI for the years I hadn't worked but not done anything about it as it gives you about £5 a week more I think but costs about £800 a year, so again takes a few years to recoup what you've paid before it's worth it.

If we had a crystal ball and knew how long we had we could make better choices.

janeainsworth that is what I said?? Someone else higher up suggested it was £3 *a month and I was correcting that.

I think we need to look at tax free income rates as well when considering how low our pensions are compared to other countries to give us a fairer picture.

Since 2010 when the evil Tories came into power the tax free income has roughly doubled from approx £6500 to £12570. The benevolent socialists only raised it by 50% in their 13 year stint from around £4000 to £6500 so who did more for pensioners?

Other countries also have a much lower tax threshold so it is swings and roundabouts.

Suzie some more detail about nurses’ pay from the nurses.co.uk website
“ What salary do you earn with each NHS banding?
NHS pay is operated in a banding system that was introduced in 2004.This system allocates specific roles and levels of seniority to specific bands, and therefore, salaries.As already mentioned, newly qualified Nurses enter the workforce at Band 5.The salary ranges at each banding beyond this level are:• Band 6: £31,365 to £37,890• Band 7: £38,890 to £44,503• Band 8: £45,753 to £87,754• Band 9: £91,004 to £104,927”

The nurses’ starting salary of £24.9K is comparable to junior doctors’ starting salary of £28K, and a teacher’s starting salary of £25.7K outside London.

Those differentials seem pretty fair to me.

Good post Granny23.

I really get the feeling that many people are brainwashed by the idea that this or that can't be done but it simply isn't true. We choose. Those who voted for this government chose the economic choices put in place by it. Equally, if you vote for a different party you will be chosing a different a different type of benefit system. Those who vote have to be prepared to own what they have voted for and also understand that no type of economic system is the only one that works you are not voting for that you are voting for what it works for.

"A classic example of the UK Government’s priorities is the state pension, which is the worst in the developed world in terms of its value verses average wages. It ranks bottom in a list of countries compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), paying out just 29% of the average wage.

READ MORE: Open Minds on Independence #7: Believe in Scotland’s Manifesto for Wellbeing

Top of the pension table in the data is the Netherlands (100.6%), followed by Portugal (94%) and Italy (93.2%). The second worst is Mexico (29.6%) but it is quite a jump to the third worst, Poland, which pays 38.6% of the average wage. The average pension of all the countries on the list is 62.9%.

Thus the drop in earnings from employed to retired in the UK is the largest in the developed world. That isn’t because the UK can’t afford pensions or that the UK economy isn’t strong enough to survive if we decided to end pensioner poverty. It is a political decision and the UK Government simply has a policy of not paying a good pension.

The reason they have adopted that policy is that it significantly boosts the financial sector as it encourages those who can afford it to buy private pensions to increase their retirement income. That diverts money away from the real economy (local to you) into the City of London-based financial economy.

It also condemns those who simply can’t afford a private pension – those who have experienced unemployment, poor mental or physical health or who could only find low-waged work – to live in poverty in old age, to years of worrying about heating their houses in the winter and even in some case to early death."

Not my words but I fully concur with them. It amazes me that so many people accept this situation, when the difference between our State Pension and the pensions paid in other Countries (many of whom are not nearly as rich or have as many resources as the UK) is incredibly vast.

annsixty

But all the press is about nurses pay, the other staff are not mentioned.
All nurses are angels, discuss.

Well of course nurses get the headlines but as so often the headlines are misleading rubbish

annsixty

Starting salary £24,900, so not a pittance.

What are you comparing this with? It doesn’t really mean anything with no context

Starting salary £24,900, so not a pittance.

But all the press is about nurses pay, the other staff are not mentioned.
All nurses are angels, discuss.

annsixty

Their are millions of families who would be delighted to be earning between £33 and £35k.
These figures mean some are earning very good salaries if that is the average.
Not disparaging nurses, just pointing out that fact.
As I said on another thread, some deserve it and some don’t.
Again, just pointing out a fact, as anyone using the NHS knows.

It also means there are many earning less. I think giving the mean salary is nonsense - I’d give the median and also the quartile ranges. And anyway, nurses are only one group of all this offered the pay rise and many of the are not much above minimum wage