State Pension rise.

The State Pension in this country is an utter disgrace !!

Thankfully nurses in Scotland were given a £500 thank you gesture though a decent pay rise is more than justified.
You would think that having been hospitalised with covid Boris would be more inclined to do the decent thing.

I was not aware that pensions were going up. Will we still be the worst in Europe I wonder.

watermeadow

My State Pension is going up £4 a week fro April. The Tory government is always generous to old people in the expectation that we will vote for them, a misplaced belief in my case.
They have offered nurses a rise of £3 PER MONTH. They say they can’t afford more, having wasted billions on strategies which haven’t worked and dodgy contracts given to their buddies during the pandemic.
I an disgusted.

It sounds as if Johnson is gearing up for one of his much practiced U-Turns on this. There’s briefing about tgat it’s all Sunak’s faults and that Johnson never wanted to be mean to the nurses.
As to your main point, I agree that the 2.5 % rise for pensioners sits strangely with a narrative of the need for public sector pay restraint/freeze. I’d increase the amount of pension credit substantially and freeze the pension. I agree that our pension levels are dreadful but the triple lock isn’t the way to solve it.

Actually most will receive that per week not per month Watermeadow, not that I think it’s sufficient but here in Wales I believe they were also given £500 lump sum, along with care workers.

Wales have promised to grant whatever the Pay Review recommend but I doubt it will be the 12.5% the unions have demanded, so strikes it is!

I’ll get my SP of £179.60 at the end of the year - can’t wait!

I believe there was an issue with tax on both the Welsh and Scottish £500 bonuses, not sure if that was resolved? I’m due to receive my first state pension payment any day now and would happily have it frozen if the money went to Nurses and ancillary staff.

suziewoozie

watermeadow

My State Pension is going up £4 a week fro April. The Tory government is always generous to old people in the expectation that we will vote for them, a misplaced belief in my case.
They have offered nurses a rise of £3 PER MONTH. They say they can’t afford more, having wasted billions on strategies which haven’t worked and dodgy contracts given to their buddies during the pandemic.
I an disgusted.

It sounds as if Johnson is gearing up for one of his much practiced U-Turns on this. There’s briefing about tgat it’s all Sunak’s faults and that Johnson never wanted to be mean to the nurses.
As to your main point, I agree that the 2.5 % rise for pensioners sits strangely with a narrative of the need for public sector pay restraint/freeze. I’d increase the amount of pension credit substantially and freeze the pension. I agree that our pension levels are dreadful but the triple lock isn’t the way to solve it.

So the people who haven't paid for their pensions would get more? Sorry, but I've paid for mine and I need it. I won't be eligible for Pension Credit.

PS. That's not to say I don't think public service workers or working age benefit recipients shouldn't get more too, but I'm not falling into a "divide and conquer" mentality.

Pension Credit is a top up to ensure all pensioners receive a certain minimum. It carries other” perks”. If it were increased, it would no longer meet the criteria. There are many who miss out because they are just below the Pension Credit threshold, so they also miss out on the perks eg extra help with rent, council tax.
State Pension is bound to increase annually. Compared with other European countries, the UK pension is low, but it is much higher than the pitiful amount that younger people on basic benefits have to survive on. Those women in their sixties who have had to wait for their SRP are struggling on Universal Credit if they lose their jobs.
I think nurses should get a better pay rise, but not at pensioners’ expense. What about all the money wasted on faulty PPE last year, or on Trident? To say the country cannot afford more is a value judgement and wrong one at that.

I think I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the government

I understand your circumstances as you have explained them in the past but I really would like to see a Universal Pension, at a decent level for all, costed, growstuff. In return for this much better, universal pension there should be no means-tested pension benefits and all the benefits received by simply being old should be done away with. Also, those receiving it should not be allowed to use any tax avoidance measures so the tax system - at an older age at least - would finally start on the road to being properly progressive. There would be no personal tax allowance for this group but a very low rate of tax at this level.

If you were receiving £12,570 at state pension age, that could not be taken away nor need or income have to be proved to get it - just citizenship, we would immediately see a more natural savings and acquisitions market and spending would increase as the currently very low paid pensioners, those with only their state pension, would be better off. Also, the paperwork mountain would be much depleted.

Sadly, even if it did happen it would be only for a future generation of pensioners.

Watermeadow your sums are wrong.
If the nurses were getting £3 a month rise. That would mean they were earning £300 per month, £3600 per year.

Just to put the above in a little more perspective the UK tax code, is currently in excess of 17,000 pages. It has more than trebled in size since 1997.

Producing tax code (and vaccine) may be all we are good at currently. Hong Kong's very efficient tax code, is 276 pages long. Some tax lawyer's believe we could generate the same, if not more tax from a smaller tax code. It seems only the very rich are against it. However, I believe that to make these changes people must feel secure - hence my liking for Universal Pensions.

I am in receipt of Pension Credit.

I will be 80 years old in June. Interestingly, I will then be in receipt of 25p per week increase to my state pension and on the same date my Pension Credit will be reduced by 25p per week!!!!

Yes, I’d already worked out that my state pension is due to go up by £17 a month. However, as one of thousands of WASPI women know, the government have already kept back some £39,000 of mine that would have been in my bank from the age of 60y - instead of the 66y I was last summer when I received it. So, on a purely personal level, it’s a smile from me.
?

Urmstongran

Yes, I’d already worked out that my state pension is due to go up by £17 a month. However, as one of thousands of WASPI women know, the government have already kept back some £39,000 of mine that would have been in my bank from the age of 60y - instead of the 66y I was last summer when I received it. So, on a purely personal level, it’s a smile from me.
?

Me too. I've got about 6 weeks to go to get mine, finally!! ?

I think you always have interesting economic ideas PippaZ.
I had no interest in economic theory till I started reading some of your posts on Gransnet and now, what with looking for lockdown stimulus ?, I find I am quite interested.

My problem is because your posts are quite succinct I don’t always understand what you are saying eg the bit about no personal tax allowance for pensioners.

Ailidh

Urmstongran

Yes, I’d already worked out that my state pension is due to go up by £17 a month. However, as one of thousands of WASPI women know, the government have already kept back some £39,000 of mine that would have been in my bank from the age of 60y - instead of the 66y I was last summer when I received it. So, on a purely personal level, it’s a smile from me.
?

Me too. I've got about 6 weeks to go to get mine, finally!! ?

I still have 2 and a half years to go. Seems so wrong forcing
older women to stay in work when so many young people can't find work.

I really think they hope many of us don't survive long enough to claim the state pension.

I feel that all the figures generated to highlight the benefits of universal basic income don't take human nature into consideration. Those who have carefully scrimped and saved so they might have enough in their old age would undoubtedly resent that their efforts have been futile. I'm sure I'll be shouted at for daring to say that though.
I'm a WASPI too and only got my pension last year. Luckily I'd literally gone without to contribute to another person scheme which helped during my 6 year wait.

Peasblossom

I think you always have interesting economic ideas PippaZ.
I had no interest in economic theory till I started reading some of your posts on Gransnet and now, what with looking for lockdown stimulus ?, I find I am quite interested.

My problem is because your posts are quite succinct I don’t always understand what you are saying eg the bit about no personal tax allowance for pensioners.

Politely put Peasblossom - succinct . It's the sin of thinking everyone knows what I'm talking about, I'm afraid. If a whole country went over to Basic Income the government could decide it would replace the Personal Tax allowance for all.

I was suggesting that the Pension is a good place to start with a "Basic Pension Income". Forms of Basic Income can be tax-free with only additional income being taxed. It's just a suggestion that the personal tax allowance should go because not everyone would be getting the basic income.

None of the ideas I suggest is original but different methods have been tried in different places. We did have more "universal" benefits at one time. Many of us will have grown up under the Family Allowances Act 1945 which was a form of Universal Child Benefit. Now the word is misused by this government as "Universal Credit" which is not universal and, in many other ways is about as far away from a UBI (Universal Basic Income) as you can get.

If you scroll down this page you can see where forms of UBI have been tried. www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/2/19/21112570/universal-basic-income-ubi-map

Aveline

I feel that all the figures generated to highlight the benefits of universal basic income don't take human nature into consideration. Those who have carefully scrimped and saved so they might have enough in their old age would undoubtedly resent that their efforts have been futile. I'm sure I'll be shouted at for daring to say that though.
I'm a WASPI too and only got my pension last year. Luckily I'd literally gone without to contribute to another person scheme which helped during my 6 year wait.

It is a mistake to think you have paid for your pension Aveline - one that has been discussed on here frequently so I won't do it again. I am sorry there are still people who believe that only good, hardworking people do well in life and those who don't are wastrel good-for-nothings of the first order. Thankfully most people's experience of life helps them to know this is not so.

The extra years you have worked are paying for your higher pension. It seems some want it both ways. I do sympathise with those who did not know it would happen but it was an actuarial calculation. The problem seems to have been with the communication.

Perhaps you should have been given the choice to retire early on the lower pension or later on the higher one but I think that might have been chaotic.

The extra years you have worked are paying for your higher pension. It seems some want it both ways

Nope.
I think most of us on the higher rate each month just hope we live long enough to make up that overall short term theft! I think I’d have to live to be 82y to balance out even what the giver swiped from me. So no, I’m not grateful. I’m still bluddy annoyed to be honest.

I don't have a higher pension. I saved up myself for my old age. I've paid all my taxes and national insurance and don't expect anything in the way of tax credits or rates relief etc. I've paid my way all my life.
Many of us think like this. You can't take human nature out of this equation!

PippaZ I'm not sure if I've got the wrong end of the stick, so please do correct me if I'm wrong.
Retiring at 62, I lost 2.5yrs of state pension (£16k) and paid 2.5yrs of extra NI, but am on the old pension which is £50 a week less. I retired Jan 2015. The new pension came in April 2016, so there are plenty like me.

Urmstongran

^The extra years you have worked are paying for your higher pension. It seems some want it both ways^

Nope.
I think most of us on the higher rate each month just hope we live long enough to make up that overall short term theft! I think I’d have to live to be 82y to balance out even what the giver swiped from me. So no, I’m not grateful. I’m still bluddy annoyed to be honest.

I'm sorry but we see it differently, Urmstongran. I would add in the fact that the next generation pay all our pensions - not us.

The next generation paying for my pension seems like a fair exchange for me paying for their schooling, healthcare and other services. I have been a higher rate tax payer for many years and I’m still paying tax now on my occupational pension and investment earnings. I don’t begrudge that and I most certainly didn’t begrudge paying for the previous generation’s pension, welfare benefits, etc. etc. I don’t need lectures on how much I’m costing.