State Pension rise.

I think we need to look at tax free income rates as well when considering how low our pensions are compared to other countries to give us a fairer picture.

Since 2010 when the evil Tories came into power the tax free income has roughly doubled from approx £6500 to £12570. The benevolent socialists only raised it by 50% in their 13 year stint from around £4000 to £6500 so who did more for pensioners?

Other countries also have a much lower tax threshold so it is swings and roundabouts.

janeainsworth that is what I said?? Someone else higher up suggested it was £3 *a month and I was correcting that.

As far as I'm aware the next generation aren't paying for my pension. I worked full time for 38 years and along with my employer contributed to my own pension.

I then lost out as I was born in August 1954. I was aware of the new flat rate pension so thought well at least I'll get that - but no, as I worked for a local authority I get so much deducted.

I was offered VR a few years ago and took it (in hindsight a blessing as my Mum and sister became ill so spent almost 3 years travelling across country until they passed away - which I couldn't have managed working full time) .

I was finally due to claim state pension last year and with everything going on thought I'd delay it to get a bit of an increase. Then working it out decided it wasn't worth it as to get back the unclaimed pension would take many years (about 17 I think). So I claimed it and got it backdated. Knew it was taxable but what a nightmare as they now say I owe tax and have messed with my tax codes.

I thought about buying some NI for the years I hadn't worked but not done anything about it as it gives you about £5 a week more I think but costs about £800 a year, so again takes a few years to recoup what you've paid before it's worth it.

If we had a crystal ball and knew how long we had we could make better choices.

monica I was actually expanding on and supporting your comment Nurse's pay may be low, but not that low
It was the OP who suggested nurses were getting £3 a month and if you look at page 1 of this thread, you’ll see that I actually corrected the OP’s arithmetic at 9.00am yesterday morning.

janeainsworth

Suzie some more detail about nurses’ pay from the nurses.co.uk website
“ What salary do you earn with each NHS banding?
NHS pay is operated in a banding system that was introduced in 2004.This system allocates specific roles and levels of seniority to specific bands, and therefore, salaries.As already mentioned, newly qualified Nurses enter the workforce at Band 5.The salary ranges at each banding beyond this level are:• Band 6: £31,365 to £37,890• Band 7: £38,890 to £44,503• Band 8: £45,753 to £87,754• Band 9: £91,004 to £104,927”

The nurses’ starting salary of £24.9K is comparable to junior doctors’ starting salary of £28K, and a teacher’s starting salary of £25.7K outside London.

Those differentials seem pretty fair to me.

Not sure what point you’re making - I was making teo,points I think - that many people covered by the pay rise earn less than nurses and that their starting salary can only be judged relatively. I think the comparison with teachers is fairer than junior doctors. But either way, nurses are hardly at the top end of starting salaries. I’m not saying they should be at all but then that we can only judge relatively and not absolutely ( which I think was happening)

Chardy

Elusivebutterfly I knew nothing about the 2 tier pension. I would have like to have been told that if I worked another year my pension would be £2.5k more. But then I never had a letter about changes to SPA either, I just heard rumours in 90s and had no clue about Osborne's stitch-up.
As a single mum and unofficial carer, all these bits would make a difference to me now.
Having said that, there are women whose lives have been destroyed by these changes, health, loss of home - nightmare

I'm not sure how you worked out that your pension would have been an additional £2.5k. Please could you explain.

I've paid voluntary NICs for the last four years because my earnings were below the threshold for NICs. I've paid the maximum amount and for each additional year of payments, my pension is worth about £250 per annum.

If I'm correct and you were 60 in 2013, I can't get your figures to add up.

janeainsworth That's the problem with averages. If the average nurse pay is about £35K, there will be 6 or 7 on £25k for every one on £100k.

A good point well made Pantglas.
?

LesLee7 The next generation is paying for your pension. However much you paid in NICs, nobody invested it in a pot with your name on. It was used to pay the previous generation of pensioners.

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

janeainsworth

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

Right - crossed wires a bit. I don’t disagree- I was more questioning a sort of assumption that their starting salary was good. I guess we agree they are neither under nor over paid?

Agreed suzie.
I’m not sure it’s helpful to nurses as a profession to be portrayed by the various media as underpaid minions - if I were a nurse I’d rather be seen as a well-qualified professional person deserving of recognition & appropriate remuneration for that and I’d be even more concerned about working conditions (long shifts, inflexibility about arrangements, bullying) and being able to provide good care for patients which I think is rather more contentious than salary.
I think it was the President of the Royal College of Nursing being interviewed who, after commenting on the proposed 1% increase, went on to express concern about working conditions and understaffing leading to less than adequate care for patients.
It is a vicious circle - poor working conditions lead to loss of morale leading to more nurses leaving and difficulty in recruitment.

Thank you Urmstongran- the OP was correct in suggesting that Tories looked after pensioners but it’s not just with annual increase.

The taking of so many people out of taxation altogether is a massive benefit not available in countries paying higher rates of state pension.

LesLee7 Where did the idea come from that the pension contributions are a savings account on which we draw? No pension works in that way. You are buying an assurance that you will have a pension until you die. It may be more than you paid in, it may be less but there is no way we can each save the exact amount.

janeainsworth

Suzie Not sure what point you’re making

The point I was making was that in comparison to other young professional people, nurses are not underpaid.

But that isn't how we pay people, is it. We pay them according to how much we need them and how difficult/easy it is to get them.

Pippa I think differentials are a factor in pay negotiations & how much we ‘need’ people is just another factor, not the main way pay is determined.
Training requirements & qualifications are important too & jobs requiring similar training levels, continuing education requirements & personal responsibility have similar salary expectations.

Back to the OP or am I on the wrong thread?

I don't see how you can apply tax to state pension rates. A basic state pension does not pay tax. Add to this the complexity of the taxes from multiple countries and you are just muddying the water. The complexity of the pension systems in other countries makes it difficult to see who is ahead and who behind too.

At the end of the day, you will add to the judgement of who you vote for when you consider your opinion of the fairness or not of the state pension - if that is important to you.

I should have added levels of experience to my previous post.
A nurse with 20 years’ experience will be paid more than a newly qualified foundation doctor.

janeainsworth

Pippa I think differentials are a factor in pay negotiations & how much we ‘need’ people is just another factor, not the main way pay is determined.
Training requirements & qualifications are important too & jobs requiring similar training levels, continuing education requirements & personal responsibility have similar salary expectations.

Indeed Janeainsworth, it's complex as are all salary calculations for instance it doesn't matter how hard you have trained or what qualifications you get if that job does not need additional people, or indeed any people. Jobs come and go as the world changes and, of course, it influences pay. There is a world-wide shortage of trained and qualified nurses. Ours can go elsewhere if they choose to so the remuneration and conditions need to be those that keep them here.

That’s my point Pippa - in Spain for instance you’ll start pay tax on €6500+ when you’re 65 which means tax on a more generous pension.

No doubt someone will know figures for other countries but that’s why I’m glad the tories took almost all state pensioners out of tax. Only those with the maximum SERPS added to basic state pension wouldn’t benefit.

annsixty

Their are millions of families who would be delighted to be earning between £33 and £35k.
These figures mean some are earning very good salaries if that is the average.
Not disparaging nurses, just pointing out that fact.
As I said on another thread, some deserve it and some don’t.
Again, just pointing out a fact, as anyone using the NHS knows.

Ann I have pointed this out on many threads, that nurses are well paid (My DIL is one, and she says so too.)
However, it’s usually not well received on GN.

The salary for a nurse or any other member of staff should not depend on anyone thinking they are well paid or not but on what they are worth and the general cost for that job. The fact that some families would be delighted to be earning £33/£35k is neither here or there and it's a very odd way of deciding someone's salary.

My Council tax is going up by at least twice the pension increase. Also I pay tax so although they don't take it off my state pension they do tax my occupational pension. So I won't even break even.

But you do have income above the state pension FlexibleFriend or you wouldn't be paying tax at all would you?

Nurses are paid less than the average UK salary of £38,500 (2020) at Band 5 and Band 6, which accounts for the vast majority of staff, Band 7 is equivalent to ward manager level. It is somewhat annoying when people say they are well paid, because recruitment is a huge problem. If the role is well paid, why don’t more of those whingers train to be nurses themselves?