Proposed vigil for Sarah Everard, your views?

Many policewomen, not only men, were arresting women.
What is so praiseworthy about childishly ignoring a sensible ban because of a pandemic as we hopefully make our way out of one of the most miserable years for a very long time?
Meghan is obviously not the only drama queen currently garnering headlines.
A multitude of women who did not know the victim triggered
by one tragic incident to self indulgently break the law is not something to be proud of.

Alexa

PS Justin Welby or some other enlightened clergyman could have opened one of the big cathedrals for the protest. The whole matter is acutely related to public morality and it is odd the big churchmen are not making more noise.

Unfortunately we haven't had much leadership from church officials on anything this year, Alexa, though some parish churches have done very well in difficult circumstances.

The actions of the Metropolitan police yesterday were totally unacceptable.

Whatever were policeMEN thinking as they arrested WOMEN who were holding a vigil for a WOMAN who had been murdered, allegedly by a policeMAN?

This could have been handled so much better.

How are women supposed to feel safe when the ones who are charged with keeping them safe behave like this?

I wonder if the young woman's family were consulted regarding the demonstration. It would have been more respectful to allow them privacy rather than the tragedy becoming politicised.

Sisters uncut have been involved in some things that concern me. There are very many womens organisations that campaign against violence against women and girls.

I’ve just been reading the sisters uncut website, they organised today’s demonstration in London, I find some of it disturbing. Specifically their secret meetings, advocating direct action and ‘there’s no such thing as a friendly chat with a police officer’. I have friends and family who are police officers, men and women, I trust and respect them, as I do other friends and family.maybe it’s just me.

Some views are not sanctimonious watermeadow just different to your opinion.
The vigil/ protest will do nothing to stop the occurrence (rare) of a woman being abducted and murdered in the UK.
If the vigil was intended to have another agenda ( domestic violence to women and sexist boorish behaviour towards them) then this is the wrong time for it, with Covid and hanging on the coat tails of this particular case.....IMHO.

I am staggered to read the sanctimonious views here. The vigil was planned to be safe and peaceful but the police would not cooperate.
Poor Sarah’s murder has stirred up justified anger about the safety of women. Our safety from violent and abusive men is of far greater importance than is avoiding other people at one event while the Coronavirus dies down. Most of those at the vigil would be young people who are at minimal risk.
Perhaps some of you had better never go out again, because you happily accept both the dangers posed by men towards women and the very slight chance of catching the virus.

OnwardandUpward

*The police should have been the ones laying flowers, embarassed and ashamed of the behaviour of one of their own.*

Agreed.

I lit a candle too. No one else in our street was outside so we walked up and down the road holding the candle, for Sarah.

Being outside and well spaced is good. It's a shame the original vigil was not allowed. I can't think why not, considering they are allowing men to come together for football. It sounds like all was peaceful until the policemen turned up. This started with a policeman laying hands on a woman by force and ended that way too with several policemen forcing one woman to the ground.

I believe that the women paying their respects and laying flowers were well spaced until the police arrived and began to corral them. The police also trampled over the flowers at the bandstand. No, perhaps folk should not have turned up, like many others, I lit a candle.
However, if the original vigil had been allowed it would have been properly organised and well-spaced with timed arrivals.

The police should have been the ones laying flowers, embarassed and ashamed of the behaviour of one of their own.

We are told not to gather for everyone's safety. What is hard to understand about that? Whatever foolishness is being performed by football fans or anyone else for that matter is irrelevant - and many feel this is too soon and too raw. Her family must want privacy. I read the vigil was cancelled - and then suddenly there are women on the common, arrests are being made, a lot of unpleasantness, shouting and pointing. How has this helped anyone?

Thanks Baggs - very interesting. His quote hits home doesn't it.

Violence against women; it's a men's issue. TED talk, 18 minutes, by Jackson Katz.

Don't know if smeone has posted this already. It comes from an article in the Sunday Times by India Knight:

"A quote from a man called Jackson Katz went viral last week, as quotes often do. Katz has created a gender violence prevention programme used by the US military, and he is bracingly articulate. The quote in question was about language: “We talk about how many women were raped last year, not about how many men rape women,” it begins. Katz observes that “the use of the passive voice has a political effect: it shifts the focus from men and boys onto girls and women. Even the term ‘violence against women’ is problematic. It’s a passive construction. There’s no active agent in the sentence. It’s a bad thing that happens to women ... Nobody is doing it to them. It just happens. Men aren’t even a part of it!” I recommend watching Katz’s TED talk, “Violence against women: it’s a men’s issue”. It’s only 17 minutes and it’s extremely astute."

I'm going to see if I can fnd that TED talk and post a link.

PS Justin Welby or some other enlightened clergyman could have opened one of the big cathedrals for the protest. The whole matter is acutely related to public morality and it is odd the big churchmen are not making more noise.

I think the Chief of Police might have conferred with Sadiq Khan so a hygienic ceremony of protest could have been arranged.

Public health demands physical separation and/or mask wearing, therefore a large uncontrolled crowd is rightly against the law.

A ceremony of public protest can be choreographed in which individuals are permitted to attend a policed venue where individuals are marshalled ,like in supermarkets, a few at a time; orderly queues with placards, music and so forth, and can lay their wreaths in an atmosphere of silence and respect for Sarah and while also demanding change of male attitudes to domineering over women.

Plod sometimes seems to be well named.

I agree Katek, also the original organisers of the vigil were told it could not go ahead and contacted many people to let them know that the vigil was cancelled. Crowds however still turned up on the common and wanted to express their condolences publicly.
The grieving family of Sarah should be allowed some privacy and respect at this sad and shocking time and let the investigation into the case continue. This last few weeks has seen the news bombarded with so much aggression and discontent and most of it rife with political agenda.
It has been publicised now that the people at the vigil are now getting ready to protest outside Scotland Yard due to the actions of the police last night.
This is about Sarah and there must be some respect and thought for her and nobody else all this trouble is not helping may she just R.I.P.

But still, what happened to SE is very rare. It is always worth keeping things in proportion. That is not about controlling people...
We don't yet know what happened, but thankfully, kidnap of women is rare. Murder of women at the hands of men, however, is not. According to Refuge, 'two women a week are killed by a current or former partner in England and Wales alone'. And that doesn't mention the 'minor' events, such as being catcalled, groped, frotted, threatened, followed, that happen on an everyday basis to women and girls - often before they reach puberty. If they didn't, why are we told from childhood to be careful on the streets, to plan our journey home before we even go out, to text friends when we get home, to stay on well-lit streets, to dress appropriately - it goes on and on and on.

..unless you want to say it's an attempt to quieten hysteria.
I really don't see it as hysterical to feel that this is not acceptable, and that it should stopped. Do you? If the law as it stands is not protecting women and girls, the only course of action is to, well, take action.

susiewoosie
Backingyou on ALL your comments

You don’t ‘mark a murder’ ! ! They wouldn’t have been ‘physically handled’ either if they’d done what was asked and stayed at home. It’s called a consequence. And as for the football fans - totally different scenario involving lots of alcohol which required different handling to avoid a full scale riot. Rest assured they didn’t get away with it - charges and fines have been implemented since the event. That’s also a consequence Now if the UK used water cannon and tear gas to selectively disperse protests as in France (remember gilet jaune 2019? ) you might have a point.

^ the vast majority of violence (against men and women) is committed by men^

This is true. Everyone knows this already. In fact most violence is committed by men, full stop. Everyone knows this too.

But still, what happened to SE is very rare. It is always worth keeping things in proportion. That is not about controlling people...

..unless you want to say it's an attempt to quieten hysteria.

Sometimes it takes a horrific and shocking event, such as the murder of George Floyd, or women speaking out against Harvey Goldstein to start a snowball effect. I think that this is one of those times, and whilst Sarah's family will mourn their daughter separately and remember her for what she meant to them, it is not disrespectful for others to be angry - about Sarah's death, of course, but also about all the other women and girls who are killed by men, and about all the things we all do in order to mitigate that risk.

I really don't think that Sarah's friend has any right to decide what Sarah would have wanted, or to dictate to others about 'politicising' her murder - there is surely very little chance that she and Sarah discussed their feelings on how they would want to be remembered in the event of their death by murder - how could the friend possibly know?

Telling people not to politicise events is another way of controlling them and dismissing their anger.

Slightly off the topic of the vigil, but as a related point, I keep hearing that 'it's not all men', just as we heard 'all lives matter', but IMO this misses the point in the same way as the ALM claims did. Nobody is saying that all men rape, or are dangerous, or need a curfew. It is fair to say, however, that the vast majority of violence (against men and women) is committed by men, yet when it is suggested that maybe men should have their movements restricted people react with outrage - not stopping to think that the status quo is that women have their movements restricted all the time.

Also, the whole rape culture thing works against men too. It results in the fact that women remain cautious about decent men - their colleagues, their friends, their neighbours. It demeans men by suggesting that they are unable to resist their sexual urges. No, not all men are rapists, but all men are being included in the assumption that women need to change their behaviour in order to avoid being raped. If people can't speak up for women, maybe they should think about that injustice against men, and speak up against that?

I’ve not seen the video footage, though I’ve heard the radio news and seen the headlines. I posted yesterday, relieved the organisers had cancelled after the Judge supported the current ban on large gatherings.
I share the sadness and anger that a group of women marking the murder of a lone woman are subjected to physical handling, while drunken groups of men celebrating football are left to get on with it.