Proposed vigil for Sarah Everard, your views?

The photo this morning showed a crowd gathered closely packed together which a year ago would have been perfectly acceptable - but at this time, the law is that it's illegal. At this time, with Covid restrictions in place, they were breaking the law. And did the police come in straight away heavy handed? . Did the crowd object and refuse to disperse when asked? Was it still a memorial or had it turned into a more political protest meeting?

A week ago, in Great Yarmouth, over a hundred people (mostly teenagers) gathered on the sea front in memory of a lad who'd died there on his motor bike. They played his favourite music. Then played it loudly and started to dance. Late into the night. In his memory. The local residents complained. The gathering was broken up by the police as they said it had turned into a rave. Should they have let it continue and face the prospect of future gatherings/parties with loud music being memorials? It was perfectly reasonable that teenagers would want rave music at a memorial.

The police have a very difficult job at the moment and I think the organises were right to have cancelled the planned vigil. Putting a light at the door was far more appropriate and a lovely gesture. The time for memorials is later when Covid is under control and the restrictions have been lifted.

vegansrock

I wonder what people would say if Meghan went to lay flowers. Imagine the bile (to bring two topics together).

Sadly we know the answer to this. I’m glad Kate went however. I think it’s stopped some criticism in its tracks of the gathering and maybe given others pause for thought. I like it was so understated and that for once the Mail( upto now) has not provided details of the designer and price of what she was wearing . They normally do that every time she ventures out no matter how worthy the object of the visit us. And this is all part of the problem - women reduced to what they are wearing and how they look.

I wonder what people would say if Meghan went to lay flowers. Imagine the bile (to bring two topics together).

The Duchess of Cambridge went to Clapham in the afternoon to pay her respects. Lots of people milling around then. Didn’t see any police stopping her.

Women march to bring attention to votes are allowed only for men not women.

Men violently handcuff and arrest them.

Women hold a vigil for the death and treatment of women by men.

Men violently handcuff and arrest them.

Spot the difference

This is what it looks like - police ignore BLM crowds, football crowds in Liverpool and Glasgow, but go in heavy on peaceful women.

97% of women say they have experienced some sort of unwanted sexual attention from men - whether it is catcalling, groping, lewd remarks, flashing, leering, kerbcrawling, following, threatening, upskirting, going onto more serious sexual assaults. This is what these protests are about. To those sayings”men are more at risk” - they aren’t , this isn’t just about murder.

Rosie51

suziewoozie are you saying that any gathering that ignores social distancing, breaks the rules etc, as long as it's peaceful is OK? Fine, I'll meet up with my entire extended family for a lovely party in an open air situation, it's been far too long.

No I’m not saying that and I think you know that - I’m talking about the making of decisions as to policing strategies when it’s clear that the law will be broken. The police in Glasgow must have had this discussion as they must have had in London. Who decided what? And were the police following orders or out of control? In a supposed democracy with policing by consent, we need to know.

Rosie I totally understand the points you are making. The manner of dealing with the vigil must have been decided by those at the top I agree. However, what does it say about our society that it is acceptable to treat women differently because they are more socially conditioned. It’s tricky when groups are treated differently under the law, and in any other setting would be illegal. It’s a dilemma. Personally I would have preferred a softly, softly approach on this particular occasion.
Whether or not this vigil should have taken place is another matter. I wonder what the family’s wishes were. If I were the parent, I wouldn’t have wanted a lot of people who didn’t even know my daughter to be attending a vigil. But maybe they appreciated it, I don’t know.

If the police absolutely had to go, they should have brought flowers and acted respectfully to women.

Returnofthemc

Rosie51, there are huge sectarion issues in Glasgow
Don't fan any flames
On that note I bid you goodnight

Sorry, but I don't understand this post. However, goodnight I'm off to my bed too.

It was quite possible to pay respects to Sarah Everard other than breaking Covid regulations. My candle is still burning, is yours?

Rosie51, there are huge sectarion issues in Glasgow
Don't fan any flames
On that note I bid you goodnight

suziewoozie are you saying that any gathering that ignores social distancing, breaks the rules etc, as long as it's peaceful is OK? Fine, I'll meet up with my entire extended family for a lovely party in an open air situation, it's been far too long.

Returnofthemc

Rosie51, I find your comment racist, sexit and somewhat offensive
Decency shouldn't be such a hard concept to understand. ..

Please explain where I've been racist or sexist. I find your comment incomprehensible.........I accept you might find my comment offensive, just as I find yours.

maddyone I'm probably guilty at being a bit 'blinkered' when criticism is levelled at a profession I have family involved with. I agree, there has been a difference in the way different groups have been dealt with. Do you honestly think the individual officers have been allowed to decide how to deal with the transgressors? A mob of angry men who far outnumber the available police will pragmatically be dealt with differently to a mob of more socially conditioned females. It is not unknown for females to be provocative and wanting to engender a response. I have NHS family as well as Police family. I support them all in the difficult job they do.

Rosie51, I find your comment racist, sexit and somewhat offensive
Decency shouldn't be such a hard concept to understand. ..

Rosie51

Returnofthemc

It was a peaceful vigil
I am ashamed of us
It's reminiscent of the treatment meted out to suffragettes

Ah, so as long as the Rangers supporters were peaceful, their gathering outside the football ground was OK? As far as I read there wasn't any violence amongst the crowd, they all being delighted at Ranger's success. Bloody police interfering

Well this of course begs a huge question - if the police had left well alone at Clapham as they did in Glasgow, would it have remained peaceful ? Plus they knew yes they knew at Clapham that the people were there because a Met Police Officer had been charged with murder. We need to know what Patel and Dick decided on as a tactic and told the police to do - or were the police out of control? One of these is true - we need to know which.

Rosie51 you are right, I have been supportive of medical staff during the pandemic, as I believe we all should be. I have also supported the police, and I especially thought they should have received the vaccine in the same way as the medics have done, because I know they have been shamefully abused by some members of the public, and by some people at various demonstrations last year. However, I don’t feel that throwing women to the ground and handcuffing them is appropriate when those women are attending a vigil for a very recently murdered young woman. Last year there demonstrations which were extremely ugly, with a lot of violence. I don’t know whether those demonstrations were ruled illegal, but they were certainly illegal under the Coronavirus legislation. I’m afraid I see differences between the way the demonstrators have been treated, and I wonder is it because these demonstrators are women and more easily controlled.

Returnofthemc

It was a peaceful vigil
I am ashamed of us
It's reminiscent of the treatment meted out to suffragettes

Ah, so as long as the Rangers supporters were peaceful, their gathering outside the football ground was OK? As far as I read there wasn't any violence amongst the crowd, they all being delighted at Ranger's success. Bloody police interfering

It was a peaceful vigil
I am ashamed of us
It's reminiscent of the treatment meted out to suffragettes

maddyone you have been upset and quite vocal at any criticism of doctors during the Covid crisis (citing your family members), could you extend the same consideration to families of police officers? They've been working round the clock with no PPE. They've been spat at, and some have deliberately tried to infect them. Police Officers obey commands from senior officers, or would you rather they just made up their own minds?

maddyone it was ruled illegal by a court so should not have taken place. Does Covid know not to spread if the gathering of several hundreds is for a good cause? Either we obey the rules or we don't, I think making exceptions is dodgy ground.

I find it difficult to comprehend the way the police behaved today. I haven’t seen much about it, but the picture posted on here says it all. Last year there were protests about a variety of things, some extremely violent, and crowds flocked to beaches and other places, but the police did not a lot. In fact at one protest they took the knee. But women are thrown to the ground and handcuffed. I’m sickened by the difference in treatment. As to whether or not the vigil should have taken place, I’m unsure. Did the family want it? I don’t know.

GrannyRose15
“It would be good if we made the streets safe for everyone.”
Absolutely GrannyRose!