The EU are on a collision course with the UK over vaccines.

Apparently Boris has agreed to let them have a third of out vaccine.

I'm not really nice or 'uncynical', I promise.

I just think that arguing over whether the EU (which in any case is made up of a number of different states and leaders) is or is not being vindictive is of less importance in the scheme of things than the fact that a couple of months after we left the EU there is a dispute over competition for resources, which, together with ideological differences, is the cause of the vast majority of convicts and wars.

You must be a nicer and much less cynical person than I am, then, Doodledog. Although I voted Remain, I have never been a blind worshipper of the EU and I’m in no doubt whatsoever that some EU politicians’ recent actions/pronouncements re vaccines, have stemmed from vindictiveness and pique.

I honestly don't know whether the EU is being vindictive - I don't think any of us can see into the minds of the various leaders.

What I do know is that one of the main reasons I voted to remain was because for 70 years there has been peace in Europe, and we all know what happened in 1914 and 1935 when there were several states competing for scarce resources.

I'm not saying that WW3 will start over vaccine supplies, but this is very much the sort of thing that leads to enmities that can end very badly. It scares me how quickly the talk has turned so nasty.

GagaJo

I agree. I don't know what to think really. The UK has done very well. But has also made enemies in Europe over Brexit. And of course, due to Brexit, Europe has no incentive to support the UK now.

Brexit should have nothing to do with how every country is dealing with a world wide pandemic. Many posters have vehemently denied that the EU are being vindictive over the vaccines.
Is the EU being vindictive?

Britain have also said that all unused vaccines in Britain will go to developing countries lemon.

maddyone

The AstraZeneca vaccine was developed in Britain, Oxford to be precise, by Britain and Sweden not France. The French vaccine failed and they are continuing to work on it in the hope of salvaging it. The British government sunk huge amounts of money into the development of what the Europeans call The British vaccine. Britain has already given away large amounts of the AZ vaccine to third world countries. It is also planning to sell the vaccine at cost, unlike other vaccines. Britain is supplying components used in the vaccine to Brussels where it is put together.
The EU were a full three months behind Britain in ordering the vaccine and failed to get the water tight contract that Britain secured. If the EU prevent the required, ordered and paid for vaccines from arriving in Britain, it will be breaking international law. That’s not a good look for the EU when negotiating contracts around the world in the future.

I think posters should read this post again.Especially what we are doing to help other countries.
Agreements are agreements ( with manufacturers) what the EU are thinking of doing is plainly wrong... it’s saying ‘ we don’t have enough vaccines so we will take yours’.
Their behaviour in trashing the AZ vaccine whilst demanding more of it was one way of blaming others rather than themselves for their very poor roll out of vaccines.

The dates of signing are right - the EU signed a day before U.K. BUT the U.K. had an agreement with Oxford that because it was helped financially by the Govt the U.K. would get first dibs at the product. Then Oxford needed to get AZ to join in and AZ were then tied to this agreement.
The U.K. and US are the countries which have not exported vaccines to other countries whereas the EU has done so including 10 million doses to U.K.
This pandemic does need to be seen as a world problem and as someone has already said until many more people worldwide are vaccinated there will be no getting back to normal.

maddyone and sandelf and marmadoit ??????

The EU are using ( or threatening to) their usual bullying tactics, which could well backfire on them spectacularly.
Good on Starmer for what he said on LBC this morning about the EU.
Some leaders ( thinking Macron in particular) will be gone come the elections, but not before he has condemned many people to death by his behaviour towards the AZ vaccine.
All done with pique and a political agenda.

It’s seems Dave Keating is based in Brussels, and has been for the last fourteen years. Could he possibly be biased?

Maizie why is what you read more reliable than what I saw on the news. Answer, it’s not!
Britain signed its contract a full three months before the EU.

The EU were a full three months behind Britain in ordering the vaccine

From the link I posted:

AstraZeneca signed purchasing agreement with EU one day before its agreement with UK.

Europe can't be a country. It was fine when we joined the Common Market. I'm sure you are right sandelf we got out just in time. Thank goodness we kept the pound.

The EU will survive if Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy etc. are willing to foot the bill. The biggest contributors will want the biggest say and the others will have to do as they are told.

Talking of Sweden and the AZ, my Swedish friend who returned to Stockholm 3 years ago after many years away, is bloody furious that Sweden also blocked the AZ. She’s 73 and still hasn’t had her first jab.

The 'Roman Senators' are worried that despite years of milking the UK, and many almost successful attempts to tie our hands - we have finally seen their game and got out just in time (they are working on centralising the armed forces - if we had left it later we would NOT have escaped). Other countries are wondering if this empire is working for them. Fear makes the supremos lash out. Glad we have many sources of vaccines. I am very pro Europe - its countries and peoples - I just don't believe Europe can be a country.

The AstraZeneca vaccine was developed in Britain, Oxford to be precise, by Britain and Sweden not France. The French vaccine failed and they are continuing to work on it in the hope of salvaging it. The British government sunk huge amounts of money into the development of what the Europeans call The British vaccine. Britain has already given away large amounts of the AZ vaccine to third world countries. It is also planning to sell the vaccine at cost, unlike other vaccines. Britain is supplying components used in the vaccine to Brussels where it is put together.
The EU were a full three months behind Britain in ordering the vaccine and failed to get the water tight contract that Britain secured. If the EU prevent the required, ordered and paid for vaccines from arriving in Britain, it will be breaking international law. That’s not a good look for the EU when negotiating contracts around the world in the future.

Another ‘like’ from me on the Jackie Weaver comment. Loved it.

Mamardoit

Whitewavemark2

Mamardoit

Whitewavemark2

Before any one country gets too sneer-y over the apparent incompetence of another country, it would do well to reflect how the virus ensures that it has brought a reversal to any gains by the fight against the virus.

The intelligent thing is to fight this as one unit, - not going to happen though, - so we will be forever trying to combate new and more and more dangerous variants.

The EU should have been more than capable of working has one unit and they failed.

I’m talking about the world. Ask any scientist.

I am well aware of the science. I'm the wife of one and the mother of 3 more. I also have two ICU nurses in my family.

Sorry about the 'has'!

The EU have let the entire world down. So did the USA under Trump.

In which case you will know where I am coming from.

Just a recap on the vaccine saga. The author is an American journalist, so is non partisan (unless being based in the evil EU makes one partisan):

I keep seeing the line 'EU is having vaccine problems because it was too slow in negotiating contracts' repeated in ??&?? media.

I want to push back on this narrative because I think it's missing where real EU-level mistakes lie. Let's review what happened in past year

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1372897635577761803.html

I don't think that this vaccine problem is going to break up the EU at all. It is a trade bloc. People making their living from trade aren't going to be daft enough to forgo the huge advantages that frictionless trade, regulatory standards and advantageous trade deals with the rest of the world give them. Particularly with the dire example of the UK where Brexit has led to the immediate, and likely permanent, collapse of whole industries and countless small businesses.

They'll get through the covid trauma and learn lessons from it.

We do need a like button. Love the Jackie Weaver comment.

Whitewavemark2

Mamardoit

Whitewavemark2

Before any one country gets too sneer-y over the apparent incompetence of another country, it would do well to reflect how the virus ensures that it has brought a reversal to any gains by the fight against the virus.

The intelligent thing is to fight this as one unit, - not going to happen though, - so we will be forever trying to combate new and more and more dangerous variants.

The EU should have been more than capable of working has one unit and they failed.

I’m talking about the world. Ask any scientist.

I am well aware of the science. I'm the wife of one and the mother of 3 more. I also have two ICU nurses in my family.

Sorry about the 'has'!

The EU have let the entire world down. So did the USA under Trump.

Could this be the beginning of the end for the European Union?

All the countries will have elections coming up in the next few years and a canny party leader who senses the mood of the country could sweep to victory on the promise of an in/out referendum.

Every country will be well aware of what we have achieved here post Brexit.
Their vaccine rollout fiasco will not easily be forgotten or forgiven.

They need Jackie Weaver

The EU behaves like a huge committee meeting, and we all know what they can be like.

Mamardoit

Whitewavemark2

Before any one country gets too sneer-y over the apparent incompetence of another country, it would do well to reflect how the virus ensures that it has brought a reversal to any gains by the fight against the virus.

The intelligent thing is to fight this as one unit, - not going to happen though, - so we will be forever trying to combate new and more and more dangerous variants.

The EU should have been more than capable of working has one unit and they failed.

I’m talking about the world. Ask any scientist.