The EU are on a collision course with the UK over vaccines.

Found it, the EU paid 336 euros towards the development of the AZ vaccine, in exchange for an agreement that the EU would be provided with 400 million doses.

336 euros against 65.5 billion?

The two world wars. 1914 and 1939 were caused by both the Kaiser and Hitler Empire building , not scarce resources. Sounds familliar??!

No

The EU was the largest funder of the Jenner Institute where the UK virus was developed

www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-
universities-2020-7-brexit-funding-gap-for-oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-institute/

I don’t know whether the EU were the largest funder of the Jenner Institute or not, but we were discussing the funding for the AstraZeneca vaccine. I know it was developed at the Jenner Institute, which is at Oxford University, but it’s not the same thing. One was funding to set up the institute, the other was funding to develop the vaccine. The British funding was huge compared to the EU funding.

Jaberwok

The two world wars. 1914 and 1939 were caused by both the Kaiser and Hitler Empire building , not scarce resources. Sounds familliar??!

I don't think that in either case it was as simple as that .

All of the European powers (including the UK) had empires, and were carving up the world between them, in order to take as many of their resources as they could. That, coupled with the spread of Nationalism, such as we are seeing now, and animosity between neighbouring states were arguably the main causes of WW1.

Hitler gained power after years of Germany being forced to pay reparations after WW1, resulting in economic collapse and poverty for the masses, plus a well-oiled propaganda machine which was able to persuade a majority to scapegoat the Jews and others who did not conform to the Aryan ideal, vote him in and follow his murderous philosphy.

Propaganda, scapegoating, Nationalism, competition for resources (scarce or plentiful), 'charismatic' leaders, an impending recession, the crushing of resistance - now that sounds worryingly familiar.

Urmstongran

Given they have 12 million AZ in stock, and their citizens don't want it, is this just a ploy to halt our vaccination programme, so we don't outshine them?

Actually I’m sure I read somewhere over the weekend that some 200,000 doses of AZ had been destroyed in Europe because their citizens wouldn’t take it - many had rung up, enquired which vaccine it was and said ‘no thanks’.

What is being printed and what is happening on the ground are two different things. Appointments cannot be made as there are no vaccines available for people who want to be vaccinated here.

Where are you Mokryna?

We have drop in clinics here to vaccinate the over 50s so there are vaccines around.

There is no doubt the EU have made a mess of the vaccination program and AZ have has technical difficulties slowing down production. Most AZ vaccine we use is UK produced, some is imported, as is the Pfizer vaccine.

This supply crisis will be smoothed over, at least UK had a head start vaccinating the most vulnerable first. It will probably be slower going now, getting everyone done will take longer, any hope of international travel will likely get delayed a couple of months.

maddyone

Found it, the EU paid 336 euros towards the development of the AZ vaccine, in exchange for an agreement that the EU would be provided with 400 million doses.

336 euros against 65.5 billion?

Lets not get carried away....

Up until Brexit the EU were the largest funder of the Jenner Institute. In July last year they were expressing concern about how they would continue to function without their EU funding. That was after the UK had committed £65 million in May (not billion!) for the creation of the Oxford vaccine.

Alegrias
That the EU funded the the setting up of the Jenner Institute didn’t surprise me at all. The EU were/are well known for funding scientific programmes, especially where countries worked together. The Jenner Institute have worked on many vaccines, in particular the one for malaria, not just the Covid vaccine. In the case of the Covid AstraZeneca vaccine, I believe it is Britain and Sweden who have developed it.

I’m not sure about the actual funding now you’ve queried it, I thought I read billion, maybe it was million. It’s still rather more than the EU put up though.

I just hope the vaccination programme continues to go well in the UK and goes well in Europe. We need an end to the petty squabbling and we need to get everyone vaccinated.

If the incompetent EU Commission cannot understand the basics of contract law then its their fault, not ours. Furthermore it would be more honest if they stopped lying about who owns vaccines. Neither the UK government nor the EU ‘own’ vaccines until they are delivered as part of a contract, or own vaccine supply chains. Private companies own them, and supply on the basis of contract law.

This isn't vaccine nationalism, its vaccine piracy. The United Kingdom should take all reasonable measures to protect its citizens in the face of what is now open hostility.

It was the "billion" that caught my eye maddyone

I think the EU Commission understands perfectly the basics of contract law and that UvdL is posturing to try to cover up the fact that they haven't handled the vaccine development and manufacture side at all well. I read in the New Statesman that the EU were not convinced that any vaccines could be developed so didn't support it, whereas the UK and US took the chance and that, thankfully, has paid off. We did well, no question.

Interesting point raised by DH today...if we had still been in the EU, and involved in their decisions about vaccine financial support and contracts for the whole bloc, would our expertise have been useful? Would the whole bloc be in a better place? After all, we had a seat at the table. We could have helped.

We have in fact offered to help with the AZ production in Holland. Advise etc as far as I understand.

“If you take the Pfizer vaccine,” said the Irish Taoiseach Micheál Martin – one of the sanest voices emerging from the EU, as the French and Germans threaten blockades at a time of mass hysteria over the AstraZeneca jab – “280 materials go into making the vaccine, 86 suppliers supply those materials from 19 countries around the world.”

In the radio interview aimed on Monday at the EU Commission and a fraught domestic audience, he explained patiently: “You start putting up barriers, other countries may follow suit in terms of some of those vital raw materials that are required. If we start that we are in trouble.”

In a meeting of Tory MPs , when asked why the U.K. have done so well in the vaccine rollout B Johnson replied “ Capitalism and greed “He quickly told MPs to forget he said that. Wonder why.

vegansrock

In a meeting of Tory MPs , when asked why the U.K. have done so well in the vaccine rollout B Johnson replied “ Capitalism and greed “He quickly told MPs to forget he said that. Wonder why.

Back to the discussion about capitalism lifting more out of poverty than communism.....

Mokryna is right there are no appointments available in large parts of France for people wanting vaccination even if they were prepared to have the AZ one. I have just heard that I will be eligible from Saturday but that does not mean there will be an available appointment.

Pm the Today programme this morning a Belgian Minister said the argument was not between Europe and the UK, it’s between Europe and the vaccine manufacturers. So if true why is this not part of the increasingly problematic debate.

Just imagine if it had been an EU minister accusing the U.K. of “greed”- the knives would be out big time

Alegrias
In answer to your question would the block be in a better place No. We would all be talking, talking, talking.
Let’s not forget this is an institution that took 9 years to complete a trade deal with one country. And then when they thought they’d achieved that deal the Walloons threw a spanner in the works.

silverlining Paris where some friends have been offered appointments because of underlining health problems, but twice have been turned away through lack of vaccine. Others over 70 are still waiting .. true things are changing ...... since yesterday more centre are being opeened. Just hope deliveries will arrive for everyone.
The stocks everyone talks about I know nothing about, maybe in the Netherlands’ factory, for export, as there doesn’t seem to be any here.

However everyone can have tests with or without symptoms free of charge, here the results can be as quick as 24 hours.

vegansrock from what I’ve read, the capitalism and greed comment referred to the swift development and deployment by the vaccine companies as Boris praised AZ for their non-profit philosophy. Still a crass comment, but not directed at the EU.