wokes

I read your post, thanks Lucca. I must admit that it wasn't until I read the "message given off" column of the sheet that I understood, but now totally clear.

You're not wrong Beckett. If only they had the maturity to see it for themselves.

Ellianne

I read your post, thanks Lucca. I must admit that it wasn't until I read the "message given off" column of the sheet that I understood, but now totally clear.

Thank you Ellianne. I am not denying that there are cases where things “go too far” but this is not one of them . The reporting is incorrect.
Like you I object to the rudeness of not returning to a thread one has started

Whitewavemark2

Beckett

Whitewavemark2

It is a populist thing.

They try to de- legitimise other opinions/voices by claiming that they speak for the “majority”

In fact the majority in the U.K. is left of the government and is a growing phenomenon.

Anyone else notice the irony in this?

I’m not aware that the growing level of progressive social change and attitudes have a particular platform that claims to speak for the majority.

The mistake you made was assuming that I was talking about left wing politics.

You misunderstood my post - you said "they claim that they speak for the majority"

You then went on to claim that is is a "fact" the majority of the UK is left of government!

Are you not guilty of what you accuse others of doing?

Whitewavemark2
Sometimes one sentence is enough to convey the sentiment.

I am finding this discussion interesting because this half term I have been seeing my DGC for the first time in nearly a year(yay) and talking to my DGD, who is 14. I commented that over my life I have been subject too, and been aware fo far more mysoginistic comments, than I have heard racist - and I have both had a BAME manager for several years and had staff from the BAME community.

To my amazement my DGD replied that this was her experience as well. She said it was very rare indeed to hear anyone at school say anything racist and if they did, those around them would react in a very negative way, but she said lots of the boys made derogatory comments about women and how they should be treated and what their place was, which I think comes from the amount and type of pornography boys in this impressionable pubatory age have access to.

My conclusion is that the current agenda of anti-racism, coming to us via the States, has taken attention away from a far more dangerous and invidious view of women as objects being threaded through the minds of boys and men by pornography, and that that is currently far more dangerous than racism, which is recognised and generally considered unacceptable

NotSpaghetti

Earnshaw and Katie - I think this is simply a misunderstanding regarding the Imperial College training. *Please read the explanation given by Lucca.*

Just felt I needed to reiterate!

And you are definitely right Monica about the treatment of women/girls by boys.
What are we doing!

The USA has a far greater problem than here with integration of minorities. In my opinion we didn’t need to adopt the ‘taking the knee’.

Being ‘woke’ a term that refers to awareness of issues that concern social justice and racial justice. Fair enough. But couple that with our ridiculous PC language - terms such as ‘my truth’ for example - and the whole sheebang has just become annoying, cringeworthy and omnipresent.

I agree Monica. A potential time bomb.

Seperate subject: microagressions The problem with these are that they are immensely subjective and dependent, yes, on cultural values, but also what the other person thinks you said/ did and/or interpretes what you said/did and these interpretations are deeply subjective and based on home experiences, personality etc.

A short anecdote as example. My mother and her sister both died just before my sister's wedding. At the wedding I was wearing my aunt's engagement ring, she was my godmother, and I was close to her, DS didn't like her. DS was wearing our mother's engagement ring. She made a remark to me on this that was deeply upsetting - for all of a minute, until I realised that this throw away comment had two interpretations, she said one, I heard the other. Luckily I realised quite quickly what she really meant and we did talk about it later and she was horrified - and upset, about the second interpretation, that hadn't even occurred to her.

How on earth with many micro aggressions do you disentangle what was meant by one person and what is understood by the other.

This is a subject I have experience of ,as there are two members of my family who are notorious for not just misinterpreting in a negative way the most innocent of remarks, but if asked to repeat what was said, will re-word the commen/misdescribe the action, so that it is a negative and genuinely believe that is what the first person said/did.

My conclusion is that the current agenda of anti-racism, coming to us via the States, has taken attention away from a far more dangerous and invidious view of women as objects being threaded through the minds of boys and men by pornography, and that that is currently far more dangerous than racism, which is recognised and generally considered unacceptable

Just imagine being black and a woman, MOnica...

It's encouraging to hear that some of the younger generations are becoming more ope to diversity and disapproving of racism. But it is still rife in older generations.

I agree that misogyny is a huge and ongoing problem, but I really can't see that one has to chose between decrying racism and decrying misogyny.

Sorry, though. I think this a completely pointless discussion. 'Woke' and 'PC' have both become meaningless terms of abuse and posters are responding in such a predictable way to a non-story that anyone could have written their posts for them.

NotSpaghetti

NotSpaghetti

Earnshaw and Katie - I think this is simply a misunderstanding regarding the Imperial College training. *Please read the explanation given by Lucca.*

Just felt I needed to reiterate!

And I feel the need to reiterate that Earnshaw should not fight the current trend, it’s here to stay, however I reserve the right to have my own opinion of any particular “wokeism”.

Well, precisely Maizie, but it is being a woman that is the most dangerous, because this sexualised, submissive view of women is being'institutionalised' and ignored, while the problem of racism is being addressed and as DGD's experience suggesst, addressed effectively.

Urmstongran:
In my opinion we didn’t need to adopt the ‘taking the knee’. [Sat 05-Jun-21 10:11:24]

But when did it become the law that you could tell others what they should or shouldn't do according to their conscience?

I think the easy accessibility of on line porn on the phones of teenage boys and their mates is what is driving the misogynistic comments we hear so much about. Lads of a certain age (and culture) want to be part of a close knit group. They egg one another on and bad goes to worse probably. A cesspit on the web.

I said ‘in my opinion’ PippaZ. I’m entitled to one. As are you. And anyone else.

If this is the sort of nonsense taught in schools then no wonder it's going to breed a nation of violence as would-be sleuths will be on the alert for someone " speaking out of turn " and an excuse to bash someone up. This is exactly what's happening.

Mustn't upset anyone ! Fiddlesticks ! Get a backbone.

Sorry but the word itself and the whole subject of it gets on my nerves.
Nobody or nothing will change the way I am, the way I think or the way I speak----and I know I'm right and besides Orwell seeing this lot coming, so did I !

Yes I agree I think what young women are experiencing at the moment is not pleasant.

Will we have kids reporting their parents next ? East Germany comes to mind. Maybe not as far fetched as we might think.

Urmstongran

I said ‘in my opinion’ PippaZ. I’m entitled to one. As are you. And anyone else.

But it wasn't your opinion about what you should do. You are saying what others should do.

I, personally, am not sure about taking the knee but I don't go around telling you that you should feel ambivalent about it. If you were saying how you feel that is an opinion. Telling others how to feel and behave isn't, it's being dictatorial.

EllanVannin

If this is the sort of nonsense taught in schools then no wonder it's going to breed a nation of violence as would-be sleuths will be on the alert for someone " speaking out of turn " and an excuse to bash someone up. This is exactly what's happening.

Mustn't upset anyone ! Fiddlesticks ! Get a backbone.

But it wasn't true. It is made up and you are using an untruth to prove that you can tell others how to think and speak. Very, very right-wing. What happens next? Do you put people who disagree with you and want to use the language you don't approve of in camps? Don't you realise how far you are going from an open society?

nanna8

Will we have kids reporting their parents next ? East Germany comes to mind. Maybe not as far fetched as we might think.

How on earth do you get to that ?

I’d just like to repeat that the OP was incorrect, so “this sort of stuff” is NOT being taught in schools etc.