Seems we are not unlocking.

Alegrias
I agree about the masks. It was indeed thought they wouldn’t help, but it was then thought they might help (am I being cynical if we were told they wouldn’t help because there was an insufficient supply of them? Moi ? ) Anyway I wear my mask in the car sometimes, if I’ve been to the shop and then go to visit my elderly mother, where I need to wear a mask in the public areas of her sheltered apartment, I then leave my mask on. I also have no objection whatsoever to wearing a mask for as long as it takes, because it might be useful. Fair enough.

From GG13's post:

In the last seven days less than 100 people have died within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

But deaths aren't the only hazard, are they? There is Long Covid to consider, which is debilitating and can be life changing. Are people prepared to allow this to spread unchecked?

We will never reach zero Covid, today nor in four weeks time.

Agreed; but we can try to slow the increase. According to the government figures the R rate is over 1. This means that cases (which are very much on the increase) will increase exponentially with a rise in deaths and Long Covid.

Deaths, although still low, are on the increase. They include unvaccinated younger people and people who have only had the first vaccination.

In the last seven days thousands have died of cancer, stroke, heart failure etc…

We don't know if these deaths have been exacerbated by the NHS being at full stretch or whether they are within the 'normal' range. If people have evidence that they are abnormally high, please share it.

If the NHS gets snowed under with covid cases they still won't be able to cover their 'normal' workload.

The vulnerable have all been vaccinated.

But cases are rising among the unvaccinated. A 4 week delay gives an opportunity to vaccinate far more of the adult population; the younger ones who are vulnerable to catching covid. There is a very worrying rise in cases among school age children. It's not surprising as they have been told they can discontinue mask wearing and the delta variant is more highly transmissable. 40 - 60% more are the figures I have seen.

These lockdowns will carry on in perpetuity at this rate.

Well, they will if people decide to ignore them... Which I suspect is what is going to happen.

Businesses are on their last legs, people’s livelihoods are in real danger of collapsing.

They'll collapse altogether if covid cases continue to rise and stop people working or spending. The government will have to continue to offer financial support. It's really not costing them anything as the greater part of the money they have put into the economy has been raised by QE, not 'borrowed' from anyone, just issued by the Bank of England.

What is preferable? A paper deficit or a collapse of the economy if cases continue to accelerate?

I am happy to be challenged on this. I'm just summarising what I have understood from reading what many experts are saying. I might be following the wrong experts...

Pippa
Hysterical

I am in favour of a few weeks delay in the final stage of the road map to give more people time to be vaccinated, it seems fair to me that I wait a bit longer even though I have been vaccinated. My adult children are still waiting their second jabs as are many younger people.

maddyone^
Government policy is absolutely not being driven by the fact that some people have families who have moved abroad. Why on Earth would anyone make such a ridiculous comment?

maddyone I have no idea why anyone would make such a ridiculous comment but even more I have no idea why you are getting hysterical about anyone making such a ridiculous comment as no one actually made such a ridiculous comment

EXCEPT YOU!

It was a brand new virus. Nobody knew anything about it. The initial thought was that masks wouldn't help. Then they found out they probably do. Its still "probably", but I'm wearing mine just in case. If it turns out they don't, ah well, there's a pity.

As for wearing masks in your own car, if I'm driving from one place to the other and need to wear the mask in both places, I don't bother taking it off in between. Sneering not necessary, thanks.

In a 7 day period last September (8th to 14th) 83 people died with 28 days of a positive test. Quoting weekly death figures is irrelevant, unless we are taking into account the ratio between deaths and cases, which is what they are doing. So far, no complete evidence that the link is broken, so we wait.

Doodledog I cannot speak for others but I absolutely have not used my family being abroad as a reason to lift restrictions, so it would benefit your argument more if you stuck to the truth. My family have moved to New Zealand (for two years initially, possibly they will stay, but they may then return.) It wouldn’t matter what the situation was here in the UK, because New Zealand is closed to tourists, which includes those of us with family there. They were able to go there as medics ie essential workers, but they still had to spend two weeks in a quarantine hotel when they arrived. Since we cannot visit our family, your argument, or point of view, that I’m using their being abroad in order to loosen restrictions is absolutely and entirely redundant.

nanna8

Well I hope our PM does 2weeks isolation when he returns to Australia in the same way everyone else has to. We are not allowed even one visitor in the home here though they claim the lockdown is over. You can meet in a park ,up to 10 together, or in a restaurant but not in your own homes. Masks have to be worn outside at all times but as soon as you get into a restaurant you can take it off. Go figure. We have also just had 5 days without electricity and not a dickybird from anyone on when it was coming back. It came back yesterday afternoon so thank heaven for small mercies.

Just remind me of how many people in Australia have died from covid please?

Biscuitmuncher

Urmstrongran it amazes me how people stick to the rules that make absolutely no sense. Everyone seems to forget that we were told masks serve no purpose and now you see people on their own in cars wearing them!

Yes. The WHO said that last year and then admitted they were wrong. If they had got more things right at the start of last year we wouldn’t have a pandemic now. We’re learning about the virus and it’s variants all the time but unfortunately some people only choose to believe what suits their own particular agenda. So people that don’t like wearing masks prefer to stick with the out of date advice about masks that probably resulted in many deaths.

I spoke to a lady in Malaga yesterday. She has lived there these last 20y. Her daughter & her partner arrived on Saturday from the UK. They are both front line medical staff. It cost them £400 to buy the tests needed to comply and have factored in isolation time upon return before going back to work in the hospital. Very expensive extra cost for 2 people. Most young families couldn’t factor in that kind of cost this summer. Looks like staycation year for 2021.

Government policy is absolutely not being driven by the fact that some people have families who have moved abroad. Why on Earth would anyone make such a ridiculous comment?

I made that comment, just a couple of posts ago. As you know, so why not address me directly? And I made it not because I think that government policy is driven by people who have families who have emigrated, but because on this thread there are people like you who keep pointing out that their own family have done so, and use that as a reason why they want to restrictions to be lifted.

My opinion, which doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but as this is a discussion thread I am offering it, 'ridiculous' or not, is that the lives and quality of life of those who might get Covid if restrictions are lifted too soon are far ore important than seeing families.

I would also suggest that not seeing one's children is the same, whether you are not seeing them from a distance of a few miles or not seeing them from further away. You may disagree, but I would not call your opinion 'ridiculous', as that would be very rude.

I don’t know about anybody else, but I stopped expecting a June 21st unlocking some weeks ago, when it became fairly obvious that the Delta variant was going to be a major fly in the ointment.

Doodlebug obviously I was talking in general most people are not shielding

Government policy is absolutely not being driven by the fact that some people have families who have moved abroad. Why on Earth would anyone make such a ridiculous comment? Many people in Britain have family living in countries on our red list. Those people cannot visit their families nor their families visit them here without extreme inconvenience, quite rightly. Even people with family in amber listed countries cannot visit freely without huge inconvenience. Only eleven countries in the world are on our green list, so how exactly is this forming a policy that in some way is driven by families who live abroad?

I have no objection to anyone continuing to stay in lockdown if they feel safer that way, but they should not criticise others who are engaging in perfectly legal activities.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting staying in lockdown. There is a huge difference between lockdown and staying as we are, which is far from locked down, but not able to travel abroad.

Who is criticising legal activities? If that was a dig at me, the only people I am criticising are those who are arguing for removing all restrictions to suit their own circumstances (whether those circumstances are that they and their loved ones are now fully vaccinated, or because they want to travel abroad to see family) and are ignoring the fact that many younger people have given up a lot in order to keep older ones safe.

Those who want to stay in their own lockdown and are fortunate enough to be able to do so, let them.

Quite! I have no objection to anyone continuing to stay in lockdown if they feel safer that way, but they should not criticise others who are engaging in perfectly legal activities.

rosie1959

I agree Lucca it makes a lot of difference my family all live in the same town and apart from the first few weeks of initial lockdown I have seen them regularly since

My point was that if you can't see your children (in my case because of shielding) it doesn't matter if they are next door - you are still not seeing them.

I am not at all suggesting that my circumstances should drive the government policy (and FWIW I also have close family in Australia); but but neither do I think that policy should be driven by the fact that some people have families who have moved abroad.

Well I hope our PM does 2weeks isolation when he returns to Australia in the same way everyone else has to. We are not allowed even one visitor in the home here though they claim the lockdown is over. You can meet in a park ,up to 10 together, or in a restaurant but not in your own homes. Masks have to be worn outside at all times but as soon as you get into a restaurant you can take it off. Go figure. We have also just had 5 days without electricity and not a dickybird from anyone on when it was coming back. It came back yesterday afternoon so thank heaven for small mercies.

In the last seven days less than 100 people have died within 28 days of a positive Covid test.

In the last seven days thousands have died of cancer, stroke, heart failure etc…

We will never reach zero Covid, today nor in four weeks time.

The vulnerable have all been vaccinated.

These lockdowns will carry on in perpetuity at this rate.

Businesses are on their last legs, people’s livelihoods are in real danger of collapsing. Those who want to stay in their own lockdown and are fortunate enough to be able to do so, let them.

Urmstrongran it amazes me how people stick to the rules that make absolutely no sense. Everyone seems to forget that we were told masks serve no purpose and now you see people on their own in cars wearing them!

We have to test twice a week (at least) as one of us is at school, one of us is going into work and one of us is a named caregiver. I would rather we all test in all honesty to make sure. I think the reliability of the tests appears to be a problem but those who have tested positive on these LFTs (that I know of) have gone on to develop covid a day or two later

farview

Well said Lucca...for people with children and grandchildren abroad...we aren't talking four weeks or weeks at all...Australia probably won't be possible until next year...

Yet again we have someone taking sneaking round the truth in order to prove a point. We wont be able to see those in Australia until Australia says so. Nothing to do with our governments choices in this.

A million tests a day are cheaper than hospitals full of people who caught it from someone who didn't know they had it.

I've just seen some photos from the Cornwall smugfest. I had no idea that it got so intimate, with all of them crammed close to each other with no masks on. Official photos demonstrate social distancing - but other than that? No.

How any person can take the restrictions seriously after this is beyond me.

We are all now paying for almost a million tests a day! You can see where this leads and it is not the sane house.

Our 2 daughters (one a teacher, one front line NHS) have to do mandatory tests twice a week to be able to go to work. Even without symptoms! This multiplied over the country is sheer madness. What on earth is all this costing the taxpayer?