Seems we are not unlocking.

Normal does mean different things to different people, but, in the main normal meant going out and about, doing whatever different people wanted to do, whether that be going shopping, going to a pub for a drink or a meal, going to work, meeting family and friends, choosing a holiday whether that be camping in a field in the UK, abroad, flying abroad for holiday or to visit family or going on a luxury cruise etc.
For some people normal means not venturing far from home.

However, normal was doing what we chose to do without wearing masks, without fearing getting too close to others and without anxiety.

PippaZ quite obviously what people are referring to is life before Covid ie being allowed to have more than 6 people in their own homes when they want Being ok to walk into a shop or restaurant with out a mask.
Being allowed to sit on a table with more than 6 people when out
Just a few examples

There is no such thing as "normal". Normal used to be going to the seaside for a few days holiday. In fact before the war for many from the city, their "holidays" were spent in farmers fields.

Your idea of normal will not be my idea of normal with will not be the normal of the man down the road. This is all quite ridiculous. My children - one here and one in Australia both "normally" go camping at some time during the year other people would not dream of camping and people of different ages and stages of life want very different things. There is no "normal" and whatever your normal is will be changing year by year.

I wish people would stop thinking their normal is everyone else's normal. Some seem quite obsessed.

Doodledog I expect we will have to wait anyway but I suspect the Governments main concern is the reports of how many millions that is going to be lost by pubs restuartants ect by delaying opening Many many companies and businesses are not happy with the delay
Will it be any better by July

Doodledog

If everyone will have been vaccinated by the end of July, why not wait until then to open up? It's not that long to wait.

Precisely….

If everyone will have been vaccinated by the end of July, why not wait until then to open up? It's not that long to wait.

Doodledog I have just checked the government statistics. 80% of the population have had the first jab and 57% the second and both figures are rising fast. I believe all adults over school age will have been offered the vaccine by the end of July and secondary school children will be vaccinated during the school holidays.

Things are a lot better than you suggest.

Carson I can only tell you what I have experienced
I dont obviously know all their personal experiences only my childrens No we dont know anyone with long Covid Infact I only know one person that has has Covid
It is all irrelevant as things will only open up when they are allowed to.

rosie1959

Doodledog I think there is probably a fair balance of ages that want life to return to normal
The young I know do not worry too much about Covid they know age is on their side and although it does happen they have much less risk from serious illness
The idea was to vaccinate the vunerable top groups this has largely been done
My children although they are 33 and 36 are fully vaccinated

My children haven't had both yet. Perhaps that explains the difference in outlook?

They, and others their age, have worked throughout the pandemic, and have done so cheerfully, in order to protect oldies. My mum, who is in her 80s, however, can't understand why, as someone who was vaccinated in the first week of the rollout, she can't travel abroad and go to public performances again. I have explained that she could still carry the virus, or pass it from A to B, but she thinks it would be unreasonable of young people to resent vaccine passports being issued when they haven't had the chance of a second one yet. The idea that 'we are all in this together' was great when it was benefitting the older generation, but now that they are protected it has gone out of the window.

Long Covid is a horrible condition, and as far as we know it could be lifelong. I think that out of respect for young generations we should wait until they have all been offered their second jabs before opening up more fully.

rosie1959 do the young you know know anybody who’s got long covid? If so I’m really surprised that they’d be quite so sanguine about being young keeping them safe, as youth doesn’t protect them from the effects. My children are younger than yours, they have both had their first vaccine and certainly aren’t keen to return to normal until they and everybody else is fully protected. Their friends are also of that mindset.

Doodledog I think there is probably a fair balance of ages that want life to return to normal
The young I know do not worry too much about Covid they know age is on their side and although it does happen they have much less risk from serious illness
The idea was to vaccinate the vunerable top groups this has largely been done
My children although they are 33 and 36 are fully vaccinated

Someone I speak to on another forum had covid: thankfully quite mildly. He then had his vaccinations and immediately started calling for everything to open up. I couldn’t be bothered to say anything to him. I can’t help but feel that, with the vaccination roll out being so successful people are forgetting how awful long covid can be. I only found out the other day that my cousins son has long covid: pretty awful for her especially as his brother died from a heart attack at quite a young age.

What I find shocking is the number of older people who have had both vaccinations and now think that the world should open up for them. I think the figure is 54% of adults who have had both jabs, which obviously leaves 46% of the adult population unprotected. Many of these are the people who have worked, home-schooled and curtailed what are supposed to be the best years of their lives to protect those who are now willing to abandon them on the grounds that younger people are less likely to die.

The selfishness, frankly, is breathtaking.

apparently those leaving university with a biomed/MA onto a NHS scheme is much lower too, which causes diversity issues. 200 odd used to be accepted, now it's about 30 or something. I was listening to Deborah Bowman, might have been a few years ago now regarding this

One of my close family members is a GP and obviously did their training in a hospital etc. Their opinion was that there is not enough employment of people onto the junior DR/graduate scheme anymore and also they need to nationalise (I don't mean in a political sense) the IT/computer systems in place so that all hospitals/surgeries etc go onto a centralised/same access system instead of it all being so clunky

This post may not be useful

Reports have stated that covid-19 showed that the organisation of the NHS in England is not fit for purpose.

Here is one:
www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3922
It does not mean that the staff are -not fit for purpose and I don't think anyone has said that.
Being short-staffed before the pandemic arrived meant it was struggling anyway.

There will always be a few in any organisation, especially one as huge as the NHS with its 1.5 million staff, who are not up to the standard of excellence of most and to deny that or to twist what posters have said is not helpful.

Unbelievable.

So it’s the staff that are at fault?

It’s not so much ‘slagging off’ as you call it, more being aware of its shortcomings.

As we all know some staff are excellent, others not so.

I hope the people slagging off the not fit for purpose NHS weren’t outside clapping for them last year.

Urmstongran

I wouldn’t mind so much but everymodel SAGE have produced have been miles away from the actual reality. The only thing of truth to come out of this pandemic is that the NHS is unfit for purpose.

Where on earth is the proof of the extreme view?

maddyone Sun 13-Jun-21 09:31:17
Pippa I’m sorry you are so afraid that you’re reimposing restrictions on your life yourself, but if that helps you to cope it seems sensible.

I don't think I am maddyone. I don't find going into supermarkets brings me any exceptional joy at the best of times and I have always used a mix of delivery and do-it-yourself shopping.

My problem is with those who have such a terrible need to do things that they don't seem to care if it's safe or not; it's very infantile as far as I can see. If you can go on a holiday abroad because we know it's safe - lovely. But when did that become a requirement of a good life? Equally, when did going out to eat become a necessity - it's a treat but we can live well without it, especially in the summer with the ability to bar-b-que, etc. I do worry for those running the businesses but that is completely different to my feelings about the foot stampers amongst us.

maddyone very measured thoughtful post glad you are getting on with life

I completely agree with your comment about the NHS Urms

A radical overhaul is long overdue and it’s not just a case of throwing yet more billions at it.
Successive governments of every persuasion have done that yet still it struggles.

I wouldn’t mind so much but everymodel SAGE have produced have been miles away from the actual reality. The only thing of truth to come out of this pandemic is that the NHS is unfit for purpose.