The National Trust - is it losing ours?

“Sexuality is just another aspect of someone, not necessarily the defining one.”

I disagree I think sexuality and race fundamentally change your lived experience. I have gay and black friends but do not pretend to know what their life is like. There are plenty of studies that testify to this. Proximity to minority groups is not the same as your lived experience.

Obviously someone who is black or gay is not solely their race or sexuality orientation, but being a member of a group where you are likely to experience racism or homophobia can not help but shape your personality and outlook.

I know I don’t get it right all the time, but I have moved into a public facing role during the pandemic where I must make sure I’m welcoming and understanding of all communities. It’s been an eye opener.

FannyCornforth

Dilly as soon as I pressed post, I knew that I was going to get a ticking off.
I do think that I would know how I would feel, as I don't think that a change in who I want to snog or the colour of my skin would give me an entire personality transplant

Years of abuse, being ignored in shops unless they decide to follow you because obviously you are a thief, having your children upset at remarks they've had might give you a personality transplant.

Doodledog "Assuming that pink glitter and face paint signifies gayness is akin to saying that frilly aprons and wooden spoons (or, for that matter high heels and cocktail dresses) signify femininity." I do so agree with that. On the same theme! have just received an email from Waitrose who are supporting "Pride" by sending me a recipe for a lurid coloured rainbow cake which from the photo must have so much colouring in it would make your hair light up.

I like Lucy Worsley and enjoy "dressing up" historical presentations.

Thank you Doodledog
That's exactly what I think ??

Glitter, face paint, colourful costumes etc are stereotypes of the Gay community. For the NT(or anybody) to think that this is what Pride is about just shows the depth of their ignorance and lack of understanding of the issues.

Talk about tokenism?

FannyCornforth

Dilly as soon as I pressed post, I knew that I was going to get a ticking off.
I do think that I would know how I would feel, as I don't think that a change in who I want to snog or the colour of my skin would give me an entire personality transplant

This is the attitude of many young people (and older ones too!). Sexuality is just another aspect of someone, not necessarily the defining one.

Sorry to repeat myself, but the Pride way of celebrating difference is a high camp extravaganza. Great fun if that floats your boat, but it's not for everyone, gay, straight or anywhere in between. Assuming that pink glitter and face paint signifies gayness is akin to saying that frilly aprons and wooden spoons (or, for that matter high heels and cocktail dresses) signify femininity.

Volunteers work at the beautiful NT property ten minutes drive from my house. They dress depending on their role at the property. Some dress in costume fitting the house history informing visitors the details of the family ownership etc. They are very well informed and are obviously very enthusiastic about what they do. Their contribution to the NT is outstanding they give facts in a professional manner to visitors from around the world.

I very briefly volunteered there until becoming a gran. The role is to help and guide visitors and inform and answer questions but not personal opinions.

Volunteers who display any discrimination to anyone regarding race religion disability sexuality are not acceptable. They clearly do not belong there and (theworriedwell) husband should not have been subject to it. An incident such as this should have been reported and dealt with otherwise it will carry on if overlooked.

Dilly just let it drop please.
I've given my opinion, justified it and taken your comments on board.
I'm not going to comment further on what I have said.
I understand your argument but don't agree with it.
I'm not going to wheel out my life experiences or bang on about black and gay mates.
And I'm also be aware that there will probably be someone around the corner, ready to accuse me of 'making the thread about me'.
??️

But your life experiences that shape one’s personality would be different wouldn’t they FannyCornforth if you were both black and gay.

If you haven’t experienced racism or homophobia how would you know what changes this would make to your personality and outlook on life?

WW no, I definitely did not or would not of course.
I'm only speaking for me.
But I do find it tiresome that gay men are still stereotyped as rainbow glitter, feather boa mongers.

Dilly, sorry, to continue, I did not hypothesize how 'others would feel', I hypothesized on how I would feel.

FannyCornforth

Dilly as soon as I pressed post, I knew that I was going to get a ticking off.
I do think that I would know how I would feel, as I don't think that a change in who I want to snog or the colour of my skin would give me an entire personality transplant

No problem at all, as long as you don’t make the assumption that because you feel like that others would feel the same, because they wouldn’t necessarily would they?

We are NT members and have been for years, were unable to make use of our membership and make even one visit last year. I did question whether to renew but in the end decided we would. I enjoy visiting the properties, viewing the artefacts, reading the history and enjoy the gardens & parklands. I do not think it is right that volunteers should be forced/expected to dress up, have to wear face paint or glitter for any cause whatsoever if they do not wish to. It does not enhance my enjoyment although I concede it may help for those who are younger, or who have a more narrow understanding of history or the world. I appreciate that the volunteers give their help, time and knowledge. We cannot change history, we cannot obliterate the terrible things that happened which we now find too hard to contemplate. We can and should try and learn the lessons of the past, pass on the knowledge and hope we and future generations can do better.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

But you are neither FannyCornforth so you can only hypothesise of what others of these groups may or may not feel. What is clear however is you don’t like the inclusion of black or gay histories or commemoration. Our (very small) local museum has two openly gay and lesbian members of staff who have organised some really fun pride activities in the past which welcome everyone in the local community. I remember a time much less welcoming when a husband of a friend of my mother’s committed suicide when he was outed as being gay. I think a bit of celebrating is fab.

Jane an old school friend's mom was a Saturday girl at the chemist shop when it was 'real'. I can't remember the name - but it used to be in Netherton.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

They used to dress up at Blists Hill too. I remember being fascinated by the pharmacy

If you worked / volunteered at The Black Country Living Museum and didn't dress appropriately ie in costume you would look utterly ridiculous.
It would be like being a footballer and wearing a suit on the pitch (or maybe not, but you get my drift, I hope)

Re: the outbreak of agreement between Maw and Alegrias - I did a little dance in my head! ❤️

Yes funnily enough I did touch on that, in my degree, and I have no intention of outlining my educational standard further as honestly I do think it should be immaterial what level of education any of us have, as in my opinion every contributor has a right to be respected and listened to.

Proud members of the NT for 35+ years.

As for a little knowledge, did you do a Hons Degree including town development, which included the Enclosures and early Industrialisation? I did. And did you support one of your staff and edit a PhD on the subject? I learnt a lot more doing so.

Kali2

To go back to OP, I don't think that volunteers can be told to dress up. I remember visiting the Black Country Museum, and later the Williamsburg Old Town Museum in Virginia- and others around the world, were staff are employed to play roles, dressed up and often using ancient skills to demonstrate. That is part of the salaried job and part of the job description.

If volunteers want to dress up, all well and good. Otherwise, no - it is their right to choose not to.

And they did choose not to in some cases. Not particularly corporate but there you are.

To go back to OP, I don't think that volunteers can be told to dress up. I remember visiting the Black Country Museum, and later the Williamsburg Old Town Museum in Virginia- and others around the world, were staff are employed to play roles, dressed up and often using ancient skills to demonstrate. That is part of the salaried job and part of the job description.

If volunteers want to dress up, all well and good. Otherwise, no - it is their right to choose not to.