I’ve just seen something that has left me feeling very upset and shaky

Completely agree. Very well put.

Well said PinkQuartz. ?

By the way, the new strawless packs of Alpro chocolate shake and Alpro strawberry shake have tamper-evident plastic screw cap tops.

But wait, amazingly the plastic is made from sugar cane, not fossil fuel and is recyclable. Wow, how about that!

The supermarket bosses seem more concerned about reducing the plastic than the animal a part of whose body is in it.

There are many different points here discussed - casual animal cruelty should be minimised
Some don’t want to witness animal cruelty, although some people obviously do.
Avoiding / reducing meat eating is one small way of reducing animal cruelty and climate change
Industrial farming of animals involves cruelty - plenty of horrible video evidence of that
Vegan bashing has surfaced as soon as non meat eating is mentioned
I haven’t bashed anyone who eats meat - some of my close family and friends eat meat - it’s their choice, and I understand why they make that choice, but I think people should be aware of how meat is produced - it isn’t just a plastic tray in a supermarket, but a living creature has to die to provide their body to be eaten.
A vegan diet can be healthy or unhealthy same as meat eating diet can be healthy or unhealthy,
All different discussion points which have somehow become entwined.
I witnessed animal cruelty as a small child, haven’t eaten meat since and clearly remember the incident.

I can't understand how the Chinese think it's ok to act so in humanly towards animals. Don't they have hearts, don't they realise the animal is actually suffering a tortuous death?. Surely they're not that thick. It should be a criminal offence to torture animals like this, they should suffer the same fate.

www.thevegankind.com/news/2021-06-24-animal-charity-saves-pig-matilda-after-thousands-sign-petition

Disingenuous

Really I must check posts stead of using Gransnet as a repository for my rambling thoughts?

That’s true. Just as vegetation is destroyed to create space for cattle wild animals lose their habitat when people grow crops. Look at the problems caused by elephants destroying crops which is actually just them eating vegetation growing on the land where they’ve always lived. It’s a very complex problem on many levels. But one that we really need to work on.

I posted earlier about the killing of birds in order to preserve the rice crop. Thinking further about it I don’t suppose their is a crop farmer anywhere in the world that doesn’t have to take similar steps to preserve his crops against wildlife.

While the human race is in competition for food with animals it’s inevitable that one or the other will have to pay the price.

I understand the distaste for eating flesh but I think it’s a ingenuous to believe that no animal has suffered or lost its life if your diet is purely herbivore. It’s not how farming works.

No, I am not saying that it is your fault at all.

No fault.

I am simply saying that discussing diet and whether hurting animals and spoiling their opportunity for life so as to eat their bodies is on-topic, and thus is not an off-topic diversion of the thread.

ElderlyPerson

Cymres1 wrote "Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. ..."

The OP included

"I eat meat so perhaps do not have any entitlement not to be protected from the reality."

So the OP introduced diet of people here into the discussion.

So the OP opened the door to discussing that, and some people have discussed it.

Oh so it’s all my fault???

Cymres1 wrote "Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. ..."

The OP included

"I eat meat so perhaps do not have any entitlement not to be protected from the reality."

So the OP introduced diet of people here into the discussion.

So the OP opened the door to discussing that, and some people have discussed it.

Anyone gullible enough to believe that the Yulin festival will be banned by the Chinese authorities presumably also believes that the Uighur Muslims are voluntary attendants at an education institution.

Regardng the Chinese food habits and their disgusting attitude to animals and people I have nothing good to say.

I wish the rest of the world would join together to put China under pressure to clean up their act.
They have done as they please ever since invading Tibet and carrying out genocide of thei Tibetan people and Tibetan culture.
I try not to buy Chinese but as others have said it is very difficult

Gabrielle56 it’s increasingly hard not to buy ‘made in China’. I ordered some Royal Worcester Wrendale bone china mugs for my sister and the label said made in China.

After being a veggie for many years i went on to being a vegan for two years.
My health was poor and I becme weaker. This went on for long time
Eventually I was pursuaded to eat meat again.
It was really hard to do as my head was full of moral judgements to not eat animals.
I have evolved into eating a diet of different foods including fish and meat a few times a week.

I really do believe that going vegan seriously did damage my health. For one thing there is no B12 in a vegan diet and at that time supplents and bottled vitamins were not so common.

A very restricted diet is not healthy.
It was a doctor that talked me back into eating flesh my only cclause is that it has to be organic and if I can it is local.

But I will never support a vegan diet again. what other people eat is their choice.

Appalling behaviour all round from chinese.and we rollover and invite them to buy up our industries, properties land etc and leave ourselves 100% vulnerable to them by being totally reliant on them for our supplies of-well most things! About time we got back our industries and started producing for ourselves. I saw the other day that a UK supplier of clay pigeon shooting supplies was struggling too import the clays and the catapult doofer(?)....from China!?! Surely we can make THOSE here in UK..... Remember the potteries anyone e?!

I agree icanhandthemback we all make our own dietary choices whether for health or ethical reasons. No need for vegetarian/vegan bashing at all.
I think some people can be evangelical about their diets..

I saw a Michael Mosley programme where a woman was vegan but just lived on vegan sausage rolls etc and I’m sure there are a lot of young people out there doing the same. Given that we do need to eat a healthier, less meat based diet we do need to teach children in schools about nutrition. Just banning junk food adverts before 9 pm isn’t going to cut it. I could possibly cut meat out if my diet completely but not fish, milk, cheese and eggs. I love cheese more than anything. And when I use lentils (which I do a lot these days) I tend to add a meat stock cube to them.

No running down of veganism here either. I think people should be allowed to make their food choices without criticism whether they are vegan or meat eaters. I expect it is mainly online that you get some truly awful vegans (meat eaters too but everybody tends to see their viewpoint) where they literally verbally batter you. I won't get into a huge argument with anybody about it but I don't think that with my lifestyle I could cope with a vegan diet even if I wanted to. I would probably end up with a less balanced diet which would counter all the good effects claimed by the vegan pros. I have reduced my meat consumption but I don't want to give it up.

I'm not "running down vegans", I just get fed up with the
'Veganism is the Solution to All Wrongs'
attitude. You eat whatever you like, feel free, after all we generally can in our part of the world, but I don't think the Halo-Wearing Bean Brigade are seeing the wider picture, just using an opportunity to tell people how wonderful they consider their personal life choices are.
This is about so much more. I could get on to food miles and boycotting cheap Chinese plastic products, but people need to examine the best way to act on a complex cultural situation. A letter to the Chinese Embassy might be a start, instead of trumpeting one's dietary credentials.

A lot of running down of vegans on here I note. But if vegans run down meat eaters they are shouted down even more. So...why is that ok?

Horrific animal cruelty in China has been turned into yet another tired diet platform. For goodness sake give it a rest. I won't be told what to think any more than I will be lectured to about my choices on my plate.
I grew up in a farming community, my family farmed livestock and arable for many generations but are now vilified, wicked people according to the current V.V. thinking, yet I saw the immense care my father treated his animals with throughout my childhood. I was taken to the abattoir to see what the full cycle of animals in our care involved, I wasn't in an animal fairyland. In adulthood I had a flock of sheep for production of handspun wool and home-reared meat, I have poultry which gives me duck and hen eggs to share with family and friends. I am obviously a dreadful person yet my animals are well cared for, living very happily as far as I am aware, and my poultry are hand-reared rare breeds to add to the biodiversity of livestock. Perhaps saving our native historic breeds is something urban/city dwellers don't realise is as important as other more high profile animal saving campaigns. (see Rare Breeds Survival Trust)
Animals facing massive scale cruelty in a country where we have precious little clout is heartbreaking, but there is plenty happening in many domestic settings in this country. This is cruelty on our doorstep.
Toughening laws to protect all animals in the UK, improving livestock welfare relentlessly and protecting pets from vile owners under our own skies is so much more important than telling people what they should be eating, so at least give support to petitions, lobby your MP, help animal rescue charities and local wildlife organisations. It's not going to change anything across the world but it's going to make a significant difference where we genuinely can.

ElderlyPerson
Thank you for all the information about becoming Vegan. I did Veganuary & am committed for life now, it’s easy & I’m proud not to exploit animals. Had a blood test recently & all vitamin levels are optimum including B12.