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'Trans' a book about transactivism

(349 Posts)
FarNorth Sun 18-Jul-21 18:37:55

'The chapter entitled “We just need to pee” provides a shocking exposé on the mess that is the Canadian prison system. Although “women are around five times more likely than men to be the victim of a sexual crime, and men are one hundred times more likely to be the perpetrator of one,” the Canadian prison service has decided to allow whoever identifies as a woman into the female prison.
It has also decided not to keep a record of how many transwomen there are, despite the fact that studies show that transwomen retain the male pattern of offending for sexual violence; “No one in authority is even counting them, let alone tracking the harm done to female prisoners.”'

www.standard.co.uk/culture/books/trans-when-ideology-meets-reality-helen-joyce-review-b944183.html?fbclid=IwAR1ph3tCPJcA61RA4C7wwnHz5X-gru1d3l6sdLOWQ3yrPP0vFqFb9YMcHCs .

SueDonim Sun 18-Jul-21 18:45:27

I’ve just read a review of this, which gave it five stars. It’s a bit expensive for me but 🤞it’ll be out in paperback soon.

AmberSpyglass Sun 18-Jul-21 18:47:23

I’ve read it. It’s loathsome - both transphobic and antisemitic.

Namsnanny Sun 18-Jul-21 20:37:21

I read a good review of it too SueDonim

MerylStreep Sun 18-Jul-21 20:45:21

I would imagine the women in the prisons will soon sort things out their own way 😉

Namsnanny Sun 18-Jul-21 22:06:08

I wouldnt be so sure MerylStreep the muscle power of a man is 60-90% more than a woman.
No amount of testosterone reduction changes that once a young man has been through puberty, they are always stronger.

Women playing rugby are suffering from more neck and head injuries from trans players.

FarNorth Sun 18-Jul-21 23:43:50

AmberSpyglass what about the part that's quoted above?
Don't you think it very foolish to keep no record of incidents involving transwomen in a female prison - to establish the success or otherwise of that policy?

It makes the statement 'There is no evidence of any problems' completely worthless, in my view, since no record is kept of any problems.

(Incidents could, of course, be to the detriment of either transwomen or women.
No-one would know, or be able to formulate policy to deal with them.)

AmberSpyglass Mon 19-Jul-21 00:08:43

Trans women are women, and belong in women’s prisons. In women’s changing rooms. In women’s refuges. Anywhere that cis women are allowed. There is no difference.

FarNorth Mon 19-Jul-21 00:14:31

You don't understand the differing biology of females and males?

SueDonim Mon 19-Jul-21 00:50:51

AmberSpyglass

Trans women are women, and belong in women’s prisons. In women’s changing rooms. In women’s refuges. Anywhere that cis women are allowed. There is no difference.

Not even in their chromosomes? confused

Blossoming Mon 19-Jul-21 01:12:13

‘Somebody drank the kook aid.

Shelmiss Mon 19-Jul-21 07:18:29

AmberSpyglass

Trans women are women, and belong in women’s prisons. In women’s changing rooms. In women’s refuges. Anywhere that cis women are allowed. There is no difference.

No, they are not. And no, they do not. And, yes there is a difference.

Mollygo Mon 19-Jul-21 09:37:41

You’re wasting your breath posting to those who genuinely can’t see the difference between male and female.
There are some trans who live quite inoffensive lives, hurting no one and not forcing their views on anyone, but they never make the news for exactly those reasons.
One incidence of harm by allowing a transwoman into a female space is a good reason to stop it happening. People are keen to say that one Covid death caused by lifting restrictions is one too many but . . .

This insistence that transwomen should be allowed in female spaces is once again driven by the those who support the transcendence of men over women.

Transwomen are exactly that.

trisher Mon 19-Jul-21 09:53:37

I actually looked at the Canadian prison system. They seem to have levels which distinguish offenders from minimum security, through medium to maximum. So anyone who is a real danger would be in maximum. Small units for minimum security women including transwomen who are actually no danger to anyone would seem to be fine to me.
It sounds as if the book is just using generalisations to promote transphobia.

FarNorth Mon 19-Jul-21 10:30:24

In Canadian prisons, maximum security for females is not as strict as maximum security for males - because of the known risks with each of the sexes.

How do you know that a transwoman (male) who has seemed to be no danger will continue to be no danger to females when they are incarcerated together?

How do you know that a male who has been no danger to males, but now identifies as a transwoman, will be no danger to females?

How do you know that a male, who has no record of sexual violence and now identifies as a transwoman, is not someone who has simply never been caught or convicted of sexual violence and will now be a danger to female prisoners?

Why have separate female and male prisons at all?

(Transwomen may be at risk in male prisons, just as gay men or disabled men may be.
Male prisons should be able to deal with that.)

FarNorth Mon 19-Jul-21 10:32:33

AmberSpyglass I haven't read the book but have it on order.
It's obvious why you would think it transphobic.
In what way is it anti-semitic?

JaneJudge Mon 19-Jul-21 10:34:10

There are loads of ways they could segregate transwomen to keep them safe. The issue is because men not transwomen are self IDing to gain access to female only spaces. That needs to be addressed not skirted over

Namsnanny Mon 19-Jul-21 10:36:19

I think reading it first would put your mind at rest trisher.

Namsnanny Mon 19-Jul-21 10:40:02

Most authorities are scared of confronting the problem, because even discussing it causes outcry.

trisher Mon 19-Jul-21 11:31:59

FarNorth

In Canadian prisons, maximum security for females is not as strict as maximum security for males - because of the known risks with each of the sexes.

How do you know that a transwoman (male) who has seemed to be no danger will continue to be no danger to females when they are incarcerated together?

How do you know that a male who has been no danger to males, but now identifies as a transwoman, will be no danger to females?

How do you know that a male, who has no record of sexual violence and now identifies as a transwoman, is not someone who has simply never been caught or convicted of sexual violence and will now be a danger to female prisoners?

Why have separate female and male prisons at all?

(Transwomen may be at risk in male prisons, just as gay men or disabled men may be.
Male prisons should be able to deal with that.)

Q.How do you know that a woman in a minimum security unit won't assault or injure another woman?
A.You don't you can only risk assess and monitor closely.

It's not a trans problem. It's a prison problem and it applies to all.

FarNorth Mon 19-Jul-21 12:11:30

trisher I don't, obviously.
If that happens, it is vanishingly unlikely to be a sexual assault and fairly unlikely to be as vicious or as terrifying as an assault by a male.

Why not keep track of incidents involving transwomen who are in females'prisons, to find out if there is any effect on them or on the female prisoners?

Indeed it is a prison problem.
Why not house trans prisoners in a trans unit, instead of imposing males on incarcerated females who have no choice in the matter?

You'll be aware that transmen are never housed with male prisoners, even minimum security non-dangerous male prisoners.
Have you any idea why that is?

Do you have any idea why there are separate prisons for females and males, in the first place?

Namsnanny Mon 19-Jul-21 12:18:00

FarNorth the points you raise are valid, and worthy of discussion.

If stats aren't kept (which they aren't) how can we provide for the vulnerable?
Or indeed provide for the trans community?

No one else minds if info is collected on them. Most see it as a useful tool to plan the future with.

Galaxy Mon 19-Jul-21 12:24:23

Surely transwomen would be at risk in a womens prison then, if we are going to pretend that there is no difference in offending between men and women.

Mollygo Mon 19-Jul-21 12:37:05

Not just prisons, but also hospitals, particularly mental Heath hospitals. For a woman whose mental health condition makes her terrified of men, being put on a ward with a VERY obviously male transwoman because his rights were more important than hers was appalling.

TerriBull Mon 19-Jul-21 13:08:58

Here's an extract relating to women's sport

"It seemed obvious to me that a natal male who had reached puberty as a male would, other things being equal, outperform women in almost any sport. That was why we had women's sport in the first place.

The fact is that women were obviously designed for childbirth. The chromosomal difference between men and women bequeaths women with less stable hips and a less efficient gait but that capacity to grow a child and give birth to it.

The average adult man, has 41 per cent more non fat body mass, 50 per cent more muscle mass in his legs and 75 per cent more in his arms. His legs are 65 per cent stronger and his upper body is 90 per cent stronger. That's why the fastest time ever run by Allyson Felix, the woman's 400 metre Olympics champion is beaten more than 15,000 times each year by men and boys! This athletic advantage will be conferred to a post pubertal transwoman, even if she takes testosterone suppressors.

Yet this inescapable truth however is increasingly being overlooked by sports bodies