Gransnet forums

Chat

Le Café des flamants roses, le jardin des licornes

(106 Posts)
ElderlyPerson Tue 27-Jul-21 10:55:58

Here is a garden for discussing the story The Forest of the Unicorns in English.

The idea is that the story is written in French in the past historic tense.

Yet first, some of us will need to learn or relearn the past historic tense.

Perhaps some others who know will remind us please.

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 10:29:32

ElderlyPerson

Kali2

If you really want to learn French- just forget about the Passé Simple. It is archaïc and not used any more, so why makes things complicated with useless stuff. If it is for fun, as a bit of a joke, then it's OK to use it, but only if.

It is certainly not a joke.

Fun, yes, but also to explore the classical style.

But was the tense used in French novels in the past?

For example, did Alexandre Dumas use the past historic?

Yes he did, and so many others too. So it is useful to be able to recognise the Passé Simple, and to understand it when reading all the classical authors.

However, anyone who wants to learn French as it is used today, even by well educated people- then there is absolutely no need to learn to use it actively, be it orally or in writing.

I imagine most people who want to learn a language do so because they want to be able to communicate well, freely and effectively. And in this context, the Passé Simple is just not required, and in fact, becomes an obstacle.

To tell a story that happened in the past- you use the Passé Composé, with 'avoir' and 'mouvement' verbs with 'être' for all actions, and the Imperfect for all descriptions as in 'il y avait'

...beaucoup de touristes
... des champignons
...des souris
...de la neige

or

c'était fabuleux
les touristes étaient très bruyants
le soleil brillait
il faisait très chaud
les enfants jouaient sur la plage avec des unicornes gonflables

etc, etc.

Ce Week-end je suis allé à Paris.
Il faisait beau et chaud.
J'ai visité la Tour Eiffel et ensuite, je suis allé à La Place des Vosges. J'ai mangé une quiche et j'ai bu un Pinot noir excellent.
Je me suis bien régalé (passé composé of reflexive verds are also used with 'être').

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 10:39:50

Examples of tenses from GC's storybook

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 10:57:36

“…And it was still hot! “
(Love this book )

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 11:12:57

And now for something more highbrow

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:16:32

Hig brow perhaps - but a modern author would never ever write like this. So good to be able to read and understand- no point in learning to write like this. Unless you are doing a Masters in French classics.

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:17:01

Ooops High

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 11:22:41

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:28:38

MawBe

“…And it was still hot! “
(Love this book )

I found it!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRJahOxk8sw

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:31:28

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

Kali2 Mon 02-Aug-21 11:38:04

Jolie histoire.

I wonder what her MT is- as she has a slight accent, for instance pronouncing 'crocs' with the 'c'. And also the 'ne nous abandonnez' pas written incorrectly.

Agreed, ElderlyPerson - but when teaching, it can be useful.

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 11:43:03

ElderlyPerson

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

My own books, literary texts whatever - yes, a study aid.
What is the problem?

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:45:04

Other videos are available from the same channel.

For example,

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhf2m9Rncww

If it were not for this discussion I may never have known of these videos.

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 11:47:21

MawBe

ElderlyPerson

MawBe

I recognise the underlining of verbs/vocabulary syndrome! ?‍?
How do students manage nowadays when everything is online?

I never defaced books by writing or underlining anything in them.

Oh no!

My own books, literary texts whatever - yes, a study aid.
What is the problem?

Just that to me, writing in a book is wrong.

Other opinions are available (from other people though, not from me)

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 11:59:35

I would never write in a novel I was reading for pleasure, but annotating a text is an essential part of literary study.

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 12:01:28

Sacré bleu!
And to think I used to know all the quotes par coeur!

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 12:09:55

Ellianne

Sacré bleu!
And to think I used to know all the quotes par coeur!

But doesn’t it bring back happy memories? Even if I cringe at how facile some of my comments must have been ???

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 12:11:17

Ah yes, but at least we read them in the target language in our day. I've known a few who just buy the penguin translations to do their studies! Hmmm.

Ellianne Mon 02-Aug-21 12:13:07

It's hard to study the great works, especially those in foreign languages, when you are only 18 and have little experience of life.

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 12:13:22

Ellianne

Ah yes, but at least we read them in the target language in our day. I've known a few who just buy the penguin translations to do their studies! Hmmm.

Unlike one chap I knew, I never made the mistake of taking the Penguin version to tutorials!
The other give away was have the Gallimard NRF version (but forget to cut the pages!)

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 12:28:12

MawBe

Ellianne

Ah yes, but at least we read them in the target language in our day. I've known a few who just buy the penguin translations to do their studies! Hmmm.

Unlike one chap I knew, I never made the mistake of taking the Penguin version to tutorials!
The other give away was have the Gallimard NRF version (but forget to cut the pages!)

What is that about please?

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 12:36:06

ElderlyPerson

MawBe

Ellianne

Ah yes, but at least we read them in the target language in our day. I've known a few who just buy the penguin translations to do their studies! Hmmm.

Unlike one chap I knew, I never made the mistake of taking the Penguin version to tutorials!
The other give away was have the Gallimard NRF version (but forget to cut the pages!)

What is that about please?

Taking texts to tutorials.

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 12:40:37

The publishing house Gallimard used to (maybe still does -*Kali 2* would you know?) used to publish its soft backed books with the pages “uncut” - so you had to cut them yourself and it was a bit of a giveaway if you pretended you had read the book but the pages were still uncut.

annodomini Mon 02-Aug-21 12:46:55

re. underlining of verbs etc. When I helped DS2 with assignments for his OU French course, he would email me his script and I had no trouble at all using editing features on MS Word to suggest alternative vocabulary or correct a verb ending. I'd done the course many years before him! After all that, he got about 1% more than I did. sad

ElderlyPerson Mon 02-Aug-21 12:51:17

MawBe

The publishing house Gallimard used to (maybe still does -*Kali 2* would you know?) used to publish its soft backed books with the pages “uncut” - so you had to cut them yourself and it was a bit of a giveaway if you pretended you had read the book but the pages were still uncut.

How do you mean "uncut" please?

MawBe Mon 02-Aug-21 13:02:54

When a book is bound (properly) large sheets are printed with the pages, these are then folded and stitched, - I think it may be 8 at a time, finally the edges are guided/ trimmed so that the pages are separate.
Cheap paperbacks are usually gummed I think but this applies to hard backs and the “better” editions of soft backs.
You could Google it.
“The sheets are folded down to make a “gathering.” In earlier times, printers and binders often did not trim the edges, choosing to issue their books with the edges uncut and the gatherings unopened (the Spanish term for this is intonso)..”