Mridul Wadhwa - Male CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis

*There is no need for them to be confronted with the idea that a male person must now be regarded as a woman.

Galaxy

I dont understand what you mean trisher. Would I be concerned if a natal woman had breached the equality act in applying for a job, er yes. Would I comment on that er yes.

It's the way you comment that counts Galaxy if you misgender someone, if you say things they have never said, if you fail to represent them properly, if you call them names and refuse to acknowledge any of their acheivements. I regard that as unacceptable comment about anyone.
So if Mridul was a transwoman who had simply walked into a job in an area she has no experience of and knew nothing about I would question her appointment. But she has worked successfully in the field. There are presumably many women who have benefitted from her input and experience. Why woud you deny rape victims that experienced help because of your own prejudices?

trisher

Doodledog I apologise for missing your some.
But the question I asked remains, if the comments on this thread were about a natal woman would you find them acceptable?

Whatever the comments had been about I would not make such gross assumptions about the experiences and knowledge about posters about whom I know nothing.

The contempt in which you appear to hold other posters is dreadful, it really is. I've lost track of who has said what on which current thread on this topic, but your dismissal of Mollygo, whom you accuse of 'moving in different' circles, is a case in point. By 'different', you clearly mean 'less enlightened than you', as evidenced by the way you laboriously explained how in your own circles people begin discourse by being asked to provide a pronoun by which to refer to them, as though nobody else has come across that nonsense.

When I pointed out that not only is it relatively commonplace it is also widely resented, you tried to condescend to me by saying that your friends were not bound by the expectations of others, but free to make their own decisions, as though mine are minions?.

There are so many other examples on this and the other thread, and it is unedifying. If you worked from the premise that we are all equal - even those who disagree with you on this topic - and have an equal right to be heard, people might be inclined to listen to your arguments when you make them, rather than react to your patronising tone.

What comments here would be unacceptable if said about a natal woman, trisher?

Continuing to refer to men/ women as he / she and continuing to say women and men, not ciswomen and cismen, is consistent.

It is what we have always done and is what everyone understands.

Trying to comment about transwomen, while calling them she leads to huge confusion - which is one reason why we are in the mess we are.

(Strangely, we don't hear much about cismen. Or demands for men to 'be kind'.)

I think that is crossed threads Doodledog so I'm not gong to comment on here.

Hang on a minute, so less educated women going through trauma who rely on free services more are more likely to be lectured about how unenlightened they are?
wow
I don't think I need to point out the implications of that

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

That link, given earlier by Zennomore, includes further links to the interview in question and to a transcript of it.
So anyone can hear and/or read what was said.

In my opinion, while seeking shelter or having counselling for sexual violence there is no place for a woman to be challenged about any views she has, even if they are unreasonable views.

The view that a man is not a woman is not an unreasonable one.

trisher

I think that is crossed threads Doodledog so I'm not gong to comment on here.

Fair enough, but the principle is the same on both.

Well try she says "Women must accept male counsellors" - No she doesn't.
She says part of the journey from trauma may include facing your prejudices. People can be prejudiced against anything. She's an Asian transwoman so it's an area I would imagine she is experienced in.
As I have said many times you are entirely entitled to your views about transpeople, what you are not entitled to do is to use those views to promote prejudice.
Are you then saying Far North that even if an experienced counsellor thinks challenging someone's prejudices would help them on the way to recovery and to a happier life,it shouldn't be done?

Counselling is not meant to be a hierarchical process. The counsellor is not there to decide what is best for the client - in fact a lot of counselling training is about how not to do this.

The process is supposed to allow the client to talk in a safe and unthreatening environment, and decide for herself what is best for her. She is not there to be educated, or 'retrained' in anyone else's beliefs, and most certainly not the counsellor's.

If a person is racist, say, that may need to be challenged.
I doubt very much if it would be helpful to do it during counselling for sexual violence.
I definitely don't think it would ever help to present that person with someone who claims to be of the same ethnicity as them, but is not, and to ask that person to accept the other as also being Indian / African / whatever they claim to be.

That is the reality of what you advocate, trisher.

Doodledog

Counselling is not meant to be a hierarchical process. The counsellor is not there to decide what is best for the client - in fact a lot of counselling training is about how not to do this.

The process is supposed to allow the client to talk in a safe and unthreatening environment, and decide for herself what is best for her. She is not there to be educated, or 'retrained' in anyone else's beliefs, and most certainly not the counsellor's.

Agree DoodleDog

It isn't "hierarchical" to help someone face their prejudices, if those prejudices are in some way blocking the route to happiness.

trisher there's definitely something wrong with it if it includes asking people to disregard reality.

Doodledog

Counselling is not meant to be a hierarchical process. The counsellor is not there to decide what is best for the client - in fact a lot of counselling training is about how not to do this.

The process is supposed to allow the client to talk in a safe and unthreatening environment, and decide for herself what is best for her. She is not there to be educated, or 'retrained' in anyone else's beliefs, and most certainly not the counsellor's.

Absolutely that.

This person seems to be more interested in challenging stereotypes than caring about traumatised women.
It seems to be all about her, not those in need of help. I really try, and I most certainly am not a bigot, or racist, but sometimes I feel as if I have woken up in a world devised by Lewis Carroll.

MaizieD

^She should not have said what she did! That was completely inappropriate.^

Can you not see, Shelflife that it instantly disbars her from the position she holds? Apologies, excuses, are useless. She thought it and said it. In some work places that would generate some training on an awareness course of some sort. But that would not be adequate for someone who is actually CEO of an incredibly sensitive organisation.

Yes, exactly that.??

Trans rights are usurping all other rights.
The SNP is falling for it hook line and sinker, giving guidance now to schools that pupils as young as 4 should be treated as female/male if that’s what they want, and parents need not be made aware of it.Whaaaaat?!

GagaJo

If we read the transcript of what she said, it is clear that she IS NOT saying rape victims have to accept male support. It is asking that they rethink bigotry around trans issues. NOT in a counselling environment, but in general. By all means, take issue with her opinion on this. BUT don't make it into something it isn't.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.

Mridul Wadhwa, Guilty Feminist podcast

Reading that (above) makes me think what an idiot he is.

Until the early 1900s all boys wore frocks until about aged 4 or 5 when they were "breeched"-put into trousers. In some old photos it is difficult to tell boys from girls. There was a certain amount of superstition in it as boys had a higher mortality rate, but I think it was to do with toilet training as well.
Gendering babies and toddlers was a 20th century introduction. so perhaps we should have more flexibility.

They now have somebody in a hugely important job that thinks trans issues are clearly more important than anything else including having just been raped by a man.
That is why the position was meant to be filled by female only applicants.Trickery was used to land the job, disgraceful.

‘Therapy is political’ ( that says it all.)

Doodledog

Counselling is not meant to be a hierarchical process. The counsellor is not there to decide what is best for the client - in fact a lot of counselling training is about how not to do this.

The process is supposed to allow the client to talk in a safe and unthreatening environment, and decide for herself what is best for her. She is not there to be educated, or 'retrained' in anyone else's beliefs, and most certainly not the counsellor's.

My thoughts, better put. Thank you.

lemongrove

GagaJo

If we read the transcript of what she said, it is clear that she IS NOT saying rape victims have to accept male support. It is asking that they rethink bigotry around trans issues. NOT in a counselling environment, but in general. By all means, take issue with her opinion on this. BUT don't make it into something it isn't.

But I think the other thing is that sexual violence happens to bigoted people as well. And so, you know, it is not discerning crime. But these spaces are also for you. But if you bring unacceptable beliefs that are discriminatory in nature, we will begin to work with you on your journey of recovery from trauma. But please also expect to be challenged on your prejudices, because how can you heal from trauma and build a new relationship with your trauma, because you can’t forget, and you can’t go back to life before traumatic incident or traumatic incidents. And some of us never, ever had a life before traumatic incidents. But if you have to reframe your trauma, I think it is important as part of that reframing, having a more positive relationship with it, where it becomes a story that empowers you and allows you to go and do other more beautiful things with your life, you also have to rethink your relationship with prejudice. Otherwise, you can’t really, in my view, recover from trauma and I think that’s a very important message that I am often discussing with my colleagues that in various places. Because you know, to me, therapy is political, and it isn’t always seen as that.

Mridul Wadhwa, Guilty Feminist podcast

Reading that (above) makes me think what an idiot he is.

lemon perhaps you could share with us the qualifications and experience that have helped you to this conclusion about an experienced and succesful worker in the field of violence and sexual assaults.
Os is it simply because she is a trans women?

I'll also ask again she has experience both personal and professional of sexual violence and abuse. She has obviously worked with many women. Is it fair to deprive victims of her experience simply because of your personal prejudices?

I think you will find trisher that I am far from being the only woman who thinks this whole case is a disturbing one.
I have no prejudice whatsoever about trans people but find the trans lobby itself a worrying trend, and in this particular instance think that somebody who fails to disclose that he is male when applying for such a sensitive role, and it plainly states it’s for females only, is part of an aggressive campaign for trans rights so is pushing the envelope.
My ‘prejudice’ is entirely against the lack of common sense in the wording displayed by Wadhwa (above) and heaven help any woman being lectured by this person.

trans rights are being allowed to supersede female rape victims?

The trans person got the job by default/trickery/non-disclosure, in other words dishonestly.

Any person here or otherwise that thinks that this situation is OK really needs to give their head a good wobble.