The unvaccinated

Lucca

Pittcity

I also think that people who have "a slight cold" shouldn't just carry on regardless. I know this is easier said than done if you need to work. There must be a way for us to live with these viruses and infections.

Impossible! As a teacher (just for example) if I’d stayed off work for a cold I’d have been in serious bother !

I kind of agree with Pittcity....not with colds as in most circs they don't kill but I used to work in the NHS in elderly care and we had it as part of our conditions of work that no one with any d and v symptoms could be in work and they had to stay home until 48 hours after the last episode. It was not allowed to use loperamide as this just masks symptoms and didn't cure it. I was a manager there and used to send staff home who came to work with symptoms that I thought would spread around staff or would put our patients at risk. Lucca i think it needs a change in attitude by employers because yes many do expect staff to be in work regardless (not just schools) which is how stuff spreads and how the "must go to work regardless" attitude is fostered.

My son attended school in the UK I remember having to prove that he had had all his childhood vaccinations before he was allowed to attend one of the top universities in the UK also the same proof was asked for when he did his masters in Boston USA. I travelled the world for work purposes and had to have certain vaccinations when entering certain countries. I believe strongly that if you do not want to be vaccinated then the rest of us have the right to refuse you entry into school, universities, countries, restaurants, cinemas etc. Your choice puts me at risk why is your choice more important than my health/life?

I see the arch-Covid denier, the guy from the band Right Said Fred, has been in hospital for several days with Covid. He's been very vocal about Covid not existing/being anti-vax. He dismisses his illness as 'a slight infection'. Sure - a 'mild' one that needs days in hospital on oxygen?

Visgir1

I clearly remember a patient a chap in his 20's who got Polio, which apparently he picked up from his recently vaccinated baby
His mother didn't believe in vacation!
No one at the time could believe it.

That's an interesting one - I remember when my first daughter went for her Polio vaccine, I was given it too as the health visitor warned me there was a slight chance of catching it from her as the vaccine is a live one and a trace could end up in her nappy!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9911401/Chris-Whitty-warns-sick-young-patients-hospital-Covid.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9913203/ICU-doctor-reveals-90-cent-Covid-patients-ward-vaccine-refuseniks.html

i've just been reading about an intensive care doctor, who is so frustrated by the vaccine refuseniks.
he said in his unit, and it's the same in others, 90% of the people on ventilators are vaccine refuseniks.
he's checked their notes, they were all offered the vaccine but refused to have it.
he said he is annoyed by the people who spread the false ideas rather than with the poor patients who are suffering.

If that is correct, then they are the ones taking more of a chance and putting themselves at risk.

Callistemon If I’ve understood what I’ve read correctly, there’s less chance that you will become infected if you’re vaccinated, but if you do become infected your viral load is the same - so you would pose the same risk to the unvaccinated?

ill
(Autocorrect, sorry)

According to the latest reports people who are vaccinated and catch Covid carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated, although it’s obviously much less likely to make them seriously unwell, in fact they may well not know they are a carrier.

So those who are unvaccinated are taking a greater risk that they themselves could become very I'll but are not in fact putting others in more danger than those who have been vaccinated.

I would like to know what viral load those who have had Covid would carry if they come into contact with Covid again;
they may not develop symptoms but would they cause risk to others?

There is so much we still have to learn.

According to the latest reports people who are vaccinated and catch Covid carry the same viral load as the unvaccinated, although it’s obviously much less likely to make them seriously unwell, in fact they may well not know they are a carrier.

If I were unvaccinated I’d think very hard about attending a large event at the moment as there’s a high chance of contracting Covid - in fact I’d think hard anyway because even for the vaccinated there’s a risk, and I’d rather not contract it at all if possible.

Ailidh

If refuseniks persist in refusing "because it's their right", I support 100% the rights of venues that require vaccination passports, or genuine medical exemption passports for entry.

Yes, it seems sensible.

FarNorth

Vaccinated people can carry the infection, even if they are not ill.
So I wonder if the danger is similar from either vaccinated or not.
Does anyone here know?

Unvaccinated people are the ones who are more likely to have a serious illness so perhaps if that happens to large numbers of people, some may have a re-think.

That is an interesting point FarNorth

If vaccinated people can still give the infection to others, should we insist on those who are reluctant to have the vaccine for any reason be forced or shamed into being vaccinated?

After all, they would be putting themselves at more risk but vaccinated people should be more protected anyway.

Itsawelshthing

No I'm not concerned because I don't understand how vaccination will stop the spread if you can still catch and spread covid from and to other people, so surely vaccinated individuals should be concerned about it as well? It honestly makes no sense at all. As I said before, maybe in future I will get the vaccine depending on how the trial goes. That's fine if they refuse me entry to any events or pubs, I will cope just like thousand of other people who are not getting vaccinated as well. I know I am coming across selfish but the government are as well for coercing people, especially YOUNG people, to get this.

What trial? This is for real.
The current wave of infections is principally among young people like yourself and also children, even babies.
If you don’t understand how the vaccine reduces the spread of infection you can’t have been reading the right information. Are you also unclear about how it can reduce the severity of the illness?
You say maybe in future you will get the vaccine - well you may well find that the virus overtakes you and it is out of your hands.
I honestly despair at the selfish attitude of some younger people - you are not immune - just because the emphasis early in the pandemic was on the elderly and those with underlying health issues- asthma, diabetes, COPD, obesity or auto immune diseases, it does not preclude young adults succumbing too.

welbeck

have all the vulnerable clients given their informed consent to be cared for by workers who have refused the vaccine.

to be honest welbeck, at the moment there is little choice. My daughter's needs are pretty complex by any stretch of the imagination and she is tiring as she is very active but carer/support workers generally like working with her but recruiting and retainment at the moment is the worst I think it has ever been

Completely agree Ailidh. Sometimes we need to put the good of society above our personal preferences.

have all the vulnerable clients given their informed consent to be cared for by workers who have refused the vaccine.

If refuseniks persist in refusing "because it's their right", I support 100% the rights of venues that require vaccination passports, or genuine medical exemption passports for entry.

my uni son is double vaccinated and he has had covid so can he go to a prestigious one?

25Avalon

According to The Telegraph a prominent English University is refusing to take students who aren’t vaccinated.

Good.

itsawelshthing - I have to say, I think you are wrong and sound extremely selfish.
No amount of sanitising, mask wearing, etc will really prevent you getting this virus. As you are so concerned about it, can we assume that you would be equally unwilling to go into hospital if you were in the state of needing treatment for this?

So, it is okay for more than three quarters of the population to have this jab, but you are 'special' and do not want it.

According to The Telegraph a prominent English University is refusing to take students who aren’t vaccinated.

itsawelshthing, no one is coercing you into having the vaccine.
but you should not endanger vulnerable people by going to them as a careworker.
i don't understand how you can do that in good conscience.
you must be quite young if you have had the hpv vaccine; maybe you cannot imagine what it fees like to be old or weak or disabled, ie having very little choice over the details of one's life, or activities.
and feeling vulnerable. why add to that.

I’ve followed your Covid story Maddyone and have found it moving and impactful (is that a word?) in equal measure. You seem to speak from the heart yet you’re also very measured in what you say. No dramas, just the plain truth of your experience. I had no qualms about the vaccine anyway, but if I had, I think you’d have swayed me in that direction.

We vaccinated may still get/transmit the virus but the reduction in harm and possibility of death from Covid is a prize worth having. A friend of mine is in a wheelchair with Long Covid, sixteen months after having the illness. At the moment there’s little hope she’ll ever recover her health or strength and she’s only fifty, with young children.