table manners

You have to just accept it really but I did tell mine I wouldn`t take them out to for a pizza/meal out/indian etc until they learnt how to behave at a table.
Good or bad that was my rule and the accepted it. We still haven`t been to a resturant together lol.

how or even whether cutlery is used varies greatly around the world.
i don't think it matters.
manners is what affects other people; not being gross, not impeding others, not gluttonously gobbling up everything in sight.

Good one Riverwalk!

Caleo

Are table manners a marker of social class?

Etiquette is, as in knowing your way around a formal table, but manners are universal, regardless of class.

I think they sometimes are Caleo. They shouldn’t be of course.

Basic table manners e.g. please & thank you, eating with mouth closed, not playing around or getting up and down from table, should be expected.

However not holding cutlery 'correctly' isn't a sin - they'll soon learn and there are worse crimes to commit.

Family food has changed since we were children - now there are wraps, burgers, pizzas which are basically finger-foods; and then we have risotto and curries which are best eaten with just a fork, shovel-style!

Are table manners a marker of social class?

I hate to be the one to point this out, but to younger generations table manners aren't as important.

metro.co.uk/2019/12/05/young-adults-think-traditional-manners-like-saying-please-thank-outdated-11277824/

There is really nothing you can do to force your grandchildren to your way of doing things if their own parents do not reinforce it. You can model good behavior and even ask for better behavior at the table, but that doesn't mean they will comply.

I have the same problem with my grandsons who are 9 and 11.they use the fork like a digger and haven't got a clue how to use a knife. I dispair and would be embarrassed to take them out. I am consistent with them. But unfortunately their parents are not

We were relaxed but firm and I was gratified when a neighbour complimented my 2ds on their table manners. HOWEVER when they came down from Uni the table manners had gone out of the window. So good luck if you do manage a little "training" it might not last.

i would be interested to hear what people who are not english, or whose background heritage is not english, think.

Athenia, thanks, I think I will try that! that is just the sort of advice I was hoping for.I am amazed that some people think we shouldn't try to improve manners! Their parents are trying too and so we are on the same page. I think children do need boundaries and doing nothing just means more misery for the rest of us (and them). I am a very accommodating Gran and do everything I can to make them happy whilst in my house, but I'm afraid that I just can't stick bad table manners, the 'just enjoy them' approach doesn't work for me.

I was bought up in a house where strict table manners were rigidly enforced and it made for tense meal times. My own 3 dreaded going to grandmas’ house due to her strictness! and I was therefore much more relaxed at home, yet somehow they managed to grow up successfully using the correct cutlery and eating politely!
It is possible to allow some relaxation of strict table etiquette and still turn out ok!
I have 6 DGC aged from 2 to 11,all of them use cutlery correctly (even the 2 year old tries) but they are not disciplined or punished but just watch the rest of the family at table and in restaurants. As a family we eat out a lot, and although the toddler years are messy I think social eating is very important
I also agree that many homes do not have room for a dining table let alone a dining room

I would never step in at the home of our grandchildren, but in our home we have our rules. Somewhere along the line they seem to have adapted their behaviour and follow our habits. That said we accept that children's staying power at the table is perhaps shorter than ours, and their fine motor skills vary from child to child. The priority for us is to not talk with a mouthful, to chew with a mouth closed and to ask to get down from the table.

Yes, you can ignore the behaviour and see if they get worse, Are they pushing you to aggravate?
The big test comes when the family are out for a meal, do they still behave the same or do their manners change? They will not be allowed to do this at school so you could point out that your house is like school at the table and has rules about manners. No eight year old should be sitting under the table.
Have a word with your own children and say it makes you feel uncomfortable to see how they react. Then don't join them for anything that you feel uncomfortable with.
Some children do have trouble with cutlery but I think most would choose not to sit under the table aged 8. I think they are testing you.
I wouldn't,t be bothering to cook what they need to use cutlery for just make a finger buffet eaten at the table.

My DS’s ex girlfriend had (probably still has!) dreadful table manners couldn’t hold cutlery properly. It is such a shame she never had the opportunity to learn

Whilst I agree that table manners are very important I learnt through my own children that using cutlery can be challenging. It turned out that my son was dyslexic (this wasn’t properly diagnosed until his late teens ?) and that his brain wasn’t “wired” to be either left or right hand dominant. Although he wrote right handed he could only eat left handed and like many left handlers when they write, holds a knife very differently than “normal”.
My youngest daughter although right handed in everything else, also eats as a left hander. Maybe it’s because I’m ambidextrous? Personally so long as they don’t use their cutlery as a shovel and close their mouths when eating I’m not fussed if they don’t hold their cutlery in a normal way ?

greenlady102, couldn't agree more! Table manners are important, but it's not worth making meal times into a battlefield.

I think any kind of manners teaching needs to be led by the parents. Your choice is to have them in your home or not.....If you are a regular part of childcare then raise the issue with their parents. I absolutely agree that table manners (and other manners) ARE important but its also important not to make it a divide between you and their parents. I really would not do the "no pudding" thing. For one thing children should not be being taught to value sweet things over protein and veg. Yes I know it was done in our day but so were liberty bodices!!

Get them to lay the table before they sit down to eat, if they are involved in this perhaps they will be more interested in using the cutlery, plates, glasses and other things that can be put out on the table. If they are part of the mealtime process then they may enjoy it more. Take them out to eat in cafes and restaurants where they will see what other children and adults do and can copy good behaviour. It is all in the teaching.

My eldest gS is 5 and GD nearly 3 so I asked him if he could be big boy and set an example to his young sister as she was being silly. He did and I really praised him for setting and example and things have been better since. After good manners and eating their dinner they get 2 Cadbury's Hero and that also does the trick as they loose them if they misbehave. You could also use a sticker chart and so many stickers get a reward, that often teaches children that they get rewarded for good behavour rather than constantly telling them off

Our two eldest grandsons don't have the greatest table manners but they're not the worst I've ever seen either!

My husband and I go slowly, slowly with them. For example, we might ask them to take their elbows of the table during the week that they are with us. The next time they come, we might ask them to sit on the chairs properly.

Gradually, it seems to be falling into place. The eldest one is really eating quite nicely now.

Don't 'nag' them about everything at once. Sure fire way to annoy them and their parents.

I hope this helps and good luck. I'm sure they are lovely children - they'll get there!

Our 3 GS are always seated between 2 adults who can encourage good behaviour, usually by involving them in the conversation and also help them to pass dishes to others etc.
I will also tell them what is for dessert - usually- a favourite and allow them to help serve it.
Bad table manners and especially eating with the mouth open or speaking with a full mouth is really horrible and spoils the occasion for everyone else.

My step GD is now 20 and laughs with us about the time she,stayed with us aged 6yrs and learned to control our Westie ( she was taught to tell the dog to sit and was thereafter no longer afraid of her), she remembers laying the table for me and learning how to hold,and use her cutlery,as I said to her at the time " when you have a boyfriend and want to go out to posh restaurants with him, you'll need to know what to do". She is now at uni and "posh restaurants" are not currently on their radar, but she agrees that at least she knows what to do when they are!! Her Mum and,Dad were glad of the backup, but I realise that some parents would not like the interference. Incidentally, she also remembers me trying to teach her to crochet - something she has recently taken up again - the repetitive actions of the stitches helps her to unwind when she gets stressed. So I have given myself a small pat on the back for getting something right anyway!!!

My son brought a friend home to stay when 17-18, as his family life was less than ideal. We lived in a bungalow which seemed to worry him. We made our evening meal and called him to the kitchen to see how much he wanted, what he liked etc. He took his plate and stood looking lost so my son said come and sit down...

It turned out he had never sat at a table to eat - his 'place' was on the stairs, so had been concerned how to eat in a bungalow. He soon learnt, and your grandchildren will.