Latest from Mridul Wadhwa

It's not being blown up by the Tory party, women are able to listen and make their own decisions. I heard Ed Davey with my own ears, I didnt need anyone to explain what it meant, I have been following the Lib Dems strategy (if you can call it that) for years as have a lot of women.

It's not just toilets though. In many sports centre there are no individual cubicles and women wander about in various states of undress. I prefer a cubicle as I struggle to hop about into my clothes in more public areas.

I have been following with interest this and other threads on the safe places for biological women issue, but so far I have not contributed.

It would be interesting to know whether any prominent trans woman or activist on their behalf has expressed any sympathy in public for how it appears many biological women feel about their safe places being invaded.

There are a lot of transwomen who support women grumppa they believe that you cant change sex and understand they are still of the Male sex. Many get lots of abuse for this stance, they are very brave in my view. They have joined with some of the womens groups that have formed around this issue.

So interesting that one of the main points of that speech and in my opinion the main point about all rape services and refuge services has been totally lost in the inconsequential and diversionary issue of trans access. That is that such services suffer substantially because of the way they are funded, through short term and temporary supplies of money. Which leads to staff moving, expertise being lost and a lack of any cohesion and development.
That's the fight women should be undertaking. Making this and successive governments provide long term and assured funding. Instead they are allowing themselves to be split apart and destroyed by an issue which is not really vitally important. When there is no funding there will be no safe spaces for anyone.

Beckett: "The facilities on planes and trains are usually lockable single cubicles, also usually totally enclosed spaces. Public toilets and changing rooms tend to be "locker room" style so large open spaces leading to the cubicles often with spaces above and below doors and walls."

Well, after a complaint or two cubicles would be made with longer walls. And there would be nothing to stop a group of women using the men's changing rooms together, trying on 4 dresses each. That might dampen masculine enthusiasm (if there is any).?

If you dont think like I do we will take all your spaces away.

How funding for refuges has ben cut
www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2017-10-16/a-system-at-breaking-point

Galaxy

If you dont think like I do we will take all your spaces away.

We are taking your spaces away while you are busy being outraged!

I agree with you trisher that MW has completely diverted the focus from helping as many women as possible, onto making women accept males who claim to be women.
That's because MW is one of those males and should not be in any job in women's services.
However, the women staff of those services know that the Scottish Government supports MW's stance and that their careers are likely to be affected if they don't go along with it.
So they convince themselves that all is fine.

Yes trisher us poor little women cant possibly focus on more than one issue at a time. Most of the women who are part of this fight have done more for wonens refuges, campaigning against violence, etc than well anyone I know.

winterwhite there's a lot more to it than you seem to realise.
This thread is about Mridul Wadhwa whose is a transwoman (male) and is CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis.
MW is using his position to insist that women survivors of sexual violence should accept men who claim to be women within the Rape Crisis services, whether as clients or as staff.

(MW concealed the fact of his being male, when he first got a job in Rape Crisis. Since then the trans agenda has moved on and he is now able to insist on being accepted as a woman.)

First of all I think that anyone can be raped and that rape services should be for everyone whatever their sex, gender, sexual orientation, race or any other factor which has been used to historically divide and seperate people. Rape services should be for everyone. Within those services there may be a need for safe spaces for people who feel unable to use them because of fears or prejudice. The reasons for the need for that space may include, sex, sexual orientation, gender, racial or religious origins, age or any other condition which the victim feels might hinder her recovery. That need should not be questioned.
However I agree with MW in that as far as recovery goes full recovery and the ability of the victim to avoid such violence in the future may involve addressing preconceived ideas and prejudices and developing an understanding of rape as a tool of male dominance and patriachy.

GalaxyI have no doubt there are some women involved in this argument who have campaigned and worked for women's services for a long time. It is sometimes difficult to see something you have believed in moved on. So I will ask this why would you want transwomen who have been raped or abused not to have the same protection other women have? Why would you not want a man who has been raped to be able to access rape services?
I expect you to come back with the answer that there are limited resources. Which is exactly my point. Cut services to the bone and then set up an argument and everyone suffers. Apart of course from the rich white guys in government. Who sit back and watch.

What services have there been up to now, for male people who have suffered sexual violence?
I know they didn't include being in a women's refuge.
Separate arrangements can also be made for transwomen, as you say, trisher.

There is no need for female survivors of sexual violence to be made to accept male staff who claim to be women.
MW made clear that he thinks female survivors of sexual violence who are not happy with male staff being around them, in a rape crisis setting, should be challenged on this.

I do not believe in mixed gender race crisis centres.

A woman who has been raped by a male should have the right to be in a female only space, treated and counselled by females.

Just because a man with a penis and testicles puts on a dress and says he feels like a woman and therefore self ID’s doesn’t make him a woman today, tomorrow or next week.

I also think that males who have been raped should have male only crisis centres, in order for them to feel safe and secure in opening up about their attack, which is still apparently hard for males to do.

(trans people who have fully transitioned is a totally different matter and needs to be looked at differently)

FarNorth, yes, but trisher’s posts are always support the rights of transwomen over those of women, for whatever personal reason she has, even where the transwomen are patently demonstrating their maleness, so there’s not a lot of point trying to convince her otherwise.
I’d happily support the need for separate spaces for transwomen, or transmen if it comes to that. Is there evidence that transwomen, self ID, with or without make appendages or transitioned are asking for that?
I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find evidence of transmen demonstrating that they are really female in male spaces. Anyone got sources?
Do they not do that?

Male appendages

MW didn't actually say what you are attributing to her FarNorth she said that at sometime a survivor might want to address her prejudices.
As for rape services solely for men quite a few Rape Crisis centres in Englandand Wales provide support for them.

I wonder about transwomen rape therapists. If a victim forms a close bond with someone who helps her get through things would the fact that this was a transwoman be relevant?

trisher regarding your last paragraph, if it was the woman’s choice to be counselled by a trans women that’s all well and good. I am all for informed consent , as long as there is no cajoling or heavy influencing to do so.

MW comes over as someone who approves of and allows cajoling and maybe party to the odd heavy handed influencing to prove her point.

OK Far North. Didn't mean to trivialise. Just responding to one aspect. Know nothing of MW. Will withdraw from this thread.

Mollygo
I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find evidence of transmen demonstrating that they are really female in male spaces. Anyone got sources?
Do they not do that?

Is this the kind of thing you mean? This is a video of a recent speech by a gay man complaining that he is now expected to see some women as gay men.

t.co/STtB57ZZ7i?amp=1

winterwhite please keep reading, on this thread and/or elsewhere, to find out what is really happening as men proclaim themselves to be women.
For example forwomen.scot/ and
fairplayforwomen.com/ have a lot of information.

FarNorth

Mollygo
I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find evidence of transmen demonstrating that they are really female in male spaces. Anyone got sources?
Do they not do that?

Is this the kind of thing you mean? This is a video of a recent speech by a gay man complaining that he is now expected to see some women as gay men.

t.co/STtB57ZZ7i?amp=1

It's horrendous that homophobia is raising its ugly head again. Driven in no small part by heterosexuals who like to think they're homosexuals. Menno makes the point succinctly and reasonably.

There has always been an uneasy relationship between the trans community and the gay community. For many years gay people regarded trans people as people unable to accept their homosexuality. It is as wrong to think the gay community speaks with one voice as it is to think all white people agree. Of course they don't. And it is wrong to think gay people are somehow immune from prejudice.