Shemima Begum

There is a programme on at the moment about Fred and Rose West, what about their victim's families? I wonder how many GNers are watching it? If you do watch such programmes it is unfair to blame the media or Shemima for the money they make

I’ve no idea Trisher I have no interest in Fred and Rose West. I’ve heard enough over the years but they definitely aren’t making money from this programme. He’s dead and she’s in prison for life. There’s no comparison with Ms Begum!

VioletSky

Just to note, human trafficking is not generally being dragged kicking and screaming, it's often falling in "love" with someone dangerous or being groomed and made false promises

Have you read any of the Rochdale girls stories?

They are all varied, but inevitably ended up with the girls being drugged and gang raped being passed from man to man.

Maggie Oliver (ex police) is very clear on this.

Just to note, human trafficking is not generally being dragged kicking and screaming, it's often falling in "love" with someone dangerous or being groomed and made false promises

trisher

^The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions^
Wasn't much the same said about the girls groomed and abused in Rochdale?-they 'chose' to be prostitutes.
A girl of 15 cannot marry, cannot have sex, cannot drink. She has the right to protection under the UN Charter of Children's Rights which the UK has signed up to and which they consistently fail to enforce.

trisher you continue to pick on my posts why?

I agree she should be brought back to the U.K. at some point, whether it be for trial or to serve a sentence if found guilty elsewhere.

She should not have been rendered stateless

I do think that there is scant comparison between Ms.Begum and the Rochdale girls.
Ms.Begum actively sort out on the internet Daesh websites and ideologies (maybe on the dark web) she willingly left the U.K. she was not drugged and dragged kicking and screaming into backs of cars, she willingly booked plane tickets and boarded of her own free will.

The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions
Wasn't much the same said about the girls groomed and abused in Rochdale?-they 'chose' to be prostitutes.
A girl of 15 cannot marry, cannot have sex, cannot drink. She has the right to protection under the UN Charter of Children's Rights which the UK has signed up to and which they consistently fail to enforce.

If you had read the thread PippaZ you would have seen that I was against Ms.Begum being made stateless, for her being on trial whether that be in the U.K., Syria or even a neutral Country (this being the option which would ensure an unbiased jury)

She is the UK’s problem, but and it is a big but Ms.Begum voluntarily left the U.K. in order to marry a Jihadi, out of her own mouth she said I thought it would make me a good muslim . The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions

The families of those murdered and maimed by the organisation (Daesh) with which she knowingly and willingly aligned herself with have to have their feelings taken into account.

I like being angry, telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others" crowd

The ignorance and irony of that post is just staggering. The families of the thousands of civilians and military personnel across the world who have been killed and maimed, by the very same terrorist organisation that Shamima Begum supported, until she became more concerned with saving her own skin, have every damned right to be angry.
As for telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others - I find that rather ironic coming from PippaZ to be honest! The only part of that post that I do agree with is that Begum is our responsibility and should be brought back to the UK to face the courts. It's a moot point as to whether we would actually ever get to hear the truth though.

Maybe what Sajid Javed in his bluffery really knows about her is that not much would hold up in court.

trisher

GrannyGravy13

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

To prove those GG13 she would firstly have to be actively involved and secondly have to prove that she had some sort of choice in that involvement. Both of those, given the age she was when she left Britain, would be difficult.
It might however be proved that in failing to stop her leaving or in failing to notice the radicalisation which led to her leaving the authorities failed in their duty of care.

The voice of reason trisher. The government are currently using this girls life to pander to the "I like being angry, telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others" crowd.

Bring her back and let's unravel the whole story in court.

As for her becoming a celebrity and making money off the back of her sickening story, all the more reason to keep her out. What an insult to the families of those kidnapped and butchered by her pals in Daesh.
There is a programme on at the moment about Fred and Rose West, what about their victim's families? I wonder how many GNers are watching it? If you do watch such programmes it is unfair to blame the media or Shemima for the money they make.

It's the ostrich approach really isn't it.

She won't be in a camp in Syria forever.

I suppose it poses the question as to whether you think people can be rehabilitated or not.

GrannyGravy13

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

To prove those GG13 she would firstly have to be actively involved and secondly have to prove that she had some sort of choice in that involvement. Both of those, given the age she was when she left Britain, would be difficult.
It might however be proved that in failing to stop her leaving or in failing to notice the radicalisation which led to her leaving the authorities failed in their duty of care.

Also this nonsense about her being groomed over here. She was groomed over the internet and to gain access to those sites you have to look for them.

As for her becoming a celebrity and making money off the back of her sickening story, all the more reason to keep her out. What an insult to the families of those kidnapped and butchered by her pals in Daesh.

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

But if she is such a threat don't we need to keep her under surveillance in the camp?

No Whatdayisit we don’t need to keep her under surveillance in a camp in Syria. She’s not here.

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

But if she is such a threat don't we need to keep her under surveillance in the camp? Will she stay there forever or will a resurgence group round them up to help restart the Islamic State.
Her living in no man's land doesn't make us safer.

Any idea of the costs involved in keeping someone under surveillance! The security services do a magnificent job in foiling many attacks that we rarely hear about. It’s known they don’t have the manpower to keep everyone on their ‘danger list’ under surveillance. Why put them under more pressure! These men and women work hard to keep us all safe. This woman would have to be closely monitored if she can back here and I’ve seen and heard nothing convincing to the benefits to the UK in her return. Plenty of benefits to her of course mostly in welfare payments.

Why do we believe Javid when he states that he knows more about this girl than he is willing to divulge? Are we not yet used to Ministers lying to us - the public? I have strong memories of this country being taken into a dreadful war as the then PM told us about that their were weapons of mass destruction which could rain down on us withing 45 minutes!!!

In the event that Begum is allowed back to stand trial I think it is unlikely that she will serve any custodial sentence. Instead the tax payer will be paying huge sums of money to ensure that she is protected and she will probably be given a new identity. I really hope this government holds firm and do not allow her to return.

Mollygo My understanding is that the crime she committed was treason. I can't remember the exact details but back when her citizenship was revoked, the government were looking into the possibility of revising the 700 year old treason laws in order to prosecute not just Begum, but all home-grown terrorists.

For all those who defend her, would you want her living next door to you, on benefits being supported by your taxes if you pay them? And if she were to commit an atrocity would you continue to defend her or say the usual ‘lessons will be learned’. I think she is despicable, very good at manipulation, not as innocent as some believe and I hope she remains where she is and that life for her there is uncomfortable. My thoughts are with those others have mentioned who have lost their lives as a result of her kind.

If she does return and stand trial she will be innocent until proven guilty, proving whatever crimes (if any) have been committed by her is going to be a real problem. I’m sure there will be a period in custody, not sure how long, or how much of a risk she is.

That aside, it is known that over 400 have travelled to support ISIS and returned to the UK, a few have been jailed, others are under surveillance I’m sure, is Shamina a bigger threat than them.