Shemima Begum

But if she is such a threat don't we need to keep her under surveillance in the camp?

No Whatdayisit we don’t need to keep her under surveillance in a camp in Syria. She’s not here.

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

Also this nonsense about her being groomed over here. She was groomed over the internet and to gain access to those sites you have to look for them.

As for her becoming a celebrity and making money off the back of her sickening story, all the more reason to keep her out. What an insult to the families of those kidnapped and butchered by her pals in Daesh.

GrannyGravy13

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

To prove those GG13 she would firstly have to be actively involved and secondly have to prove that she had some sort of choice in that involvement. Both of those, given the age she was when she left Britain, would be difficult.
It might however be proved that in failing to stop her leaving or in failing to notice the radicalisation which led to her leaving the authorities failed in their duty of care.

I suppose it poses the question as to whether you think people can be rehabilitated or not.

She won't be in a camp in Syria forever.

It's the ostrich approach really isn't it.

As for her becoming a celebrity and making money off the back of her sickening story, all the more reason to keep her out. What an insult to the families of those kidnapped and butchered by her pals in Daesh.
There is a programme on at the moment about Fred and Rose West, what about their victim's families? I wonder how many GNers are watching it? If you do watch such programmes it is unfair to blame the media or Shemima for the money they make.

trisher

GrannyGravy13

trisher

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.

Terrorism…

Aiding and abetting Daesh…

To prove those GG13 she would firstly have to be actively involved and secondly have to prove that she had some sort of choice in that involvement. Both of those, given the age she was when she left Britain, would be difficult.
It might however be proved that in failing to stop her leaving or in failing to notice the radicalisation which led to her leaving the authorities failed in their duty of care.

The voice of reason trisher. The government are currently using this girls life to pander to the "I like being angry, telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others" crowd.

Bring her back and let's unravel the whole story in court.

Maybe what Sajid Javed in his bluffery really knows about her is that not much would hold up in court.

I like being angry, telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others" crowd

The ignorance and irony of that post is just staggering. The families of the thousands of civilians and military personnel across the world who have been killed and maimed, by the very same terrorist organisation that Shamima Begum supported, until she became more concerned with saving her own skin, have every damned right to be angry.
As for telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others - I find that rather ironic coming from PippaZ to be honest! The only part of that post that I do agree with is that Begum is our responsibility and should be brought back to the UK to face the courts. It's a moot point as to whether we would actually ever get to hear the truth though.

If you had read the thread PippaZ you would have seen that I was against Ms.Begum being made stateless, for her being on trial whether that be in the U.K., Syria or even a neutral Country (this being the option which would ensure an unbiased jury)

She is the UK’s problem, but and it is a big but Ms.Begum voluntarily left the U.K. in order to marry a Jihadi, out of her own mouth she said I thought it would make me a good muslim . The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions

The families of those murdered and maimed by the organisation (Daesh) with which she knowingly and willingly aligned herself with have to have their feelings taken into account.

The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions
Wasn't much the same said about the girls groomed and abused in Rochdale?-they 'chose' to be prostitutes.
A girl of 15 cannot marry, cannot have sex, cannot drink. She has the right to protection under the UN Charter of Children's Rights which the UK has signed up to and which they consistently fail to enforce.

trisher

^The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions^
Wasn't much the same said about the girls groomed and abused in Rochdale?-they 'chose' to be prostitutes.
A girl of 15 cannot marry, cannot have sex, cannot drink. She has the right to protection under the UN Charter of Children's Rights which the UK has signed up to and which they consistently fail to enforce.

trisher you continue to pick on my posts why?

I agree she should be brought back to the U.K. at some point, whether it be for trial or to serve a sentence if found guilty elsewhere.

She should not have been rendered stateless

I do think that there is scant comparison between Ms.Begum and the Rochdale girls.
Ms.Begum actively sort out on the internet Daesh websites and ideologies (maybe on the dark web) she willingly left the U.K. she was not drugged and dragged kicking and screaming into backs of cars, she willingly booked plane tickets and boarded of her own free will.

Just to note, human trafficking is not generally being dragged kicking and screaming, it's often falling in "love" with someone dangerous or being groomed and made false promises

VioletSky

Just to note, human trafficking is not generally being dragged kicking and screaming, it's often falling in "love" with someone dangerous or being groomed and made false promises

Have you read any of the Rochdale girls stories?

They are all varied, but inevitably ended up with the girls being drugged and gang raped being passed from man to man.

Maggie Oliver (ex police) is very clear on this.

There is a programme on at the moment about Fred and Rose West, what about their victim's families? I wonder how many GNers are watching it? If you do watch such programmes it is unfair to blame the media or Shemima for the money they make

I’ve no idea Trisher I have no interest in Fred and Rose West. I’ve heard enough over the years but they definitely aren’t making money from this programme. He’s dead and she’s in prison for life. There’s no comparison with Ms Begum!

Sorry, I did say "human trafficking"

I know more about how children are groomed by abusers than I would ever want to

tickingbird

^There is a programme on at the moment about Fred and Rose West, what about their victim's families? I wonder how many GNers are watching it? If you do watch such programmes it is unfair to blame the media or Shemima for the money they make^

I’ve no idea Trisher I have no interest in Fred and Rose West. I’ve heard enough over the years but they definitely aren’t making money from this programme. He’s dead and she’s in prison for life. There’s no comparison with Ms Begum!

Someone will be tickingbid (making money)

Why no comparison? they murdered people showed no remorse. The Government tried them and fhey were both found guilty in the Great British justice System. Without that trial they could have killed so many more.

Sorry Whatdayisit you’re getting confused here. Fred West was never tried. He committed suicide. Nothing to do with the Great British justice system as you put it.

Someone will be tickingbid (making money)
Trisher Not the subjects of the programme though. Do you feel the same about the Stephen tv series! Maybe his parents are making money? Moot point either way as you seemed to be indicating Begum would be earning a living as some kind of celebrity hawking her story to the highest bidder. Highly unlikely.

Chewbacca

^I like being angry, telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others" crowd^

The ignorance and irony of that post is just staggering. The families of the thousands of civilians and military personnel across the world who have been killed and maimed, by the very same terrorist organisation that Shamima Begum supported, until she became more concerned with saving her own skin, have every damned right to be angry.
As for telling people what to do and getting people to agree I'm above others - I find that rather ironic coming from PippaZ to be honest! The only part of that post that I do agree with is that Begum is our responsibility and should be brought back to the UK to face the courts. It's a moot point as to whether we would actually ever get to hear the truth though.

None of your reply shows my post to be either ignorant or arrogant. Those people exist. I was speaking to one of them yesterday (or rather being spoken to) and there are plenty on here.

I'm afraid the "thousands of civilians and military personnel across the world ..." do not have the right to take away the human rights of someone else. Clearly their's is a very different anger to the one I was talking, as I am sure you know. They would be worth the time to listen to and care. Those shouting the odds just to hear their own voices are not.

trisher

^The age of criminal responsibility in the U.K. is 10, she was 15 when she left so legally old enough to know and be aware of her actions^
Wasn't much the same said about the girls groomed and abused in Rochdale?-they 'chose' to be prostitutes.
A girl of 15 cannot marry, cannot have sex, cannot drink. She has the right to protection under the UN Charter of Children's Rights which the UK has signed up to and which they consistently fail to enforce.

I'm sure it was trisher

As it is, we do not have a blanket age of criminal responsibility in England, NI and Wales usually persons aged 10–11 will only be imprisoned in very serious cases, such as murder. Even more so the outcome for youth (12–17) criminal proceedings are usually age categorised (currently it will depend on whether the offender is under 12, under 14, under 16 or under 18, with the older the offender the more severity of punishment, especially for serious crimes).

You still first have to prove that young people know what they are doing was wrong.

The shouty ones can go on with their reasons why they believe she knew what she was doing but thankfully they are not our courts of law.

Sorry tickingbird I stand corrected.

PippazZ the shouty ones

Who are the shouty ones are the posters who disagree with you?