Shemima Begum

This whole case concerns me. On one hand, I see a teenager who acted in a reckless and irresponsible way by running away, and then witnessed and experienced all sorts of things that none of us have, none of us can comprehend. I think, on balance that she should be allowed back to stand trial, and if Javed has the information he says he has, then she will presumably spend a very long time in prison. I think the thing which bothers me the most is the use of the term 'woke' or even worse 'wokery' when we are talking about human rights lawyers, this ties in neatly with the tabloid campaign against law lords and Patel's comments about 'leftie lawyers'. Are we to believe that human rights are only such if they suit the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade, the Piers Morgans of this world?

I haven't seen the interview but tend to agree with what trisher said on page 1.

What did happen to the other two girls?

I know exactly what I'm saying Alegrias. If she's being manipulated by our enemies she'll be a danger to our country and IMO shouldn't be allowed to return.

Being a victim doesn't excuse any atrocities you've been a party too.

GillT57 You make a very good point about human rights, which I agree with. But I also think that whether the girl herself is bad or misguided, is beside the point that she is British and we should face up to our responsibilities and not expect another, poorer country to take over from us.

JaneJudge

I haven't seen the interview but tend to agree with what trisher said on page 1.

What did happen to the other two girls?

From what has been reported one of them, Kadiza Sultana, was definitely killed.

The whereabouts of the other girl, Amira Abase, are unknown.

I hadn't realised that, how terribly sad

Ilovecheese

GillT57 You make a very good point about human rights, which I agree with. But I also think that whether the girl herself is bad or misguided, is beside the point that she is British and we should face up to our responsibilities and not expect another, poorer country to take over from us.

I agree. Like it or not, this young person is British born and as such is a British problem.

That was a rather childish comment by Javid. I was surprised

Nothing childish about it. He’s doing his job and I applaud him.

I acknowledge that she will in all probabilities return to the U.K. to face trial. As I have previously posted I do not think anyone should be made stateless. There are obviously details of this case that we the general public are not party to.

The one thing that I am not understanding (haven’t much legal knowledge) is that when people are found drug trafficking, stealing and even murdering abroad they are put on trial in that country and if found guilty serve their sentence in that Country.

Can someone enlighten me as to why this is not the case for Shamima Begum.

What is childish about Sajid Javid’s comment?
He quite clearly knows more about this woman and the atrocities she committed than we do and he expressed all he is permitted to say, presumably in case she is brought back here to face trial.

My sympathies have always and will always, rest with the victims of the vile regime she aligned herself to.

If Javid knows something that he can't share because it would impact any future decision about her, what does he gain from saying "I know something you don't, believe me, its awful". He is trying to influence our opinion of her and her situation without any legal restrictions, which is not how senior ministers should behave.

Foxie at 15 I knew right from wrong and so did my now adult son and daughter.
Shamina Begum lived in the UK, she chose to fly to a country that was very dangerous.
I have no sympathy at all for her. I save my sympathy, for people like Alan, sorry I cannot remember his surname who was beheaded by those butchers.
By al means have sympathy for her * Foxie* that is your prerogative, I choose to have none and agree totally with Sajid Javed.

The Human being has an instinct for survival and this Shamima has a strong one too

She does indeed. Her dream of being an ISIS wife and mother has gone. She has buried three babies, is separated from her husband and lives in a camp. Who knows what horror she has seen and endured. So to survive she is adopting western dress and hoping to come back to England. She will do what she can to achieve her goal and she has already proved that she has the ability to do just that. I have no idea if she will or should succeed this time. IMO at the very least before being granted leave to return, she should agree to accept support to address the psychological consequences of her experiences

Can I just point out that thinking Ms Begum should come back to UK to stand trial, does not mean I do not abhor her behaviour, and I feel every sympathy with the families of ISIS victims. It is not as simple a matter as some tabloid journalists make out.

GillT57

Can I just point out that thinking Ms Begum should come back to UK to stand trial, does not mean I do not abhor her behaviour, and I feel every sympathy with the families of ISIS victims. It is not as simple a matter as some tabloid journalists make out.

tabloids and media seem quite happy to exploit her story too. They aren't innocent in the depiction of any of this

GillT57

Can I just point out that thinking Ms Begum should come back to UK to stand trial, does not mean I do not abhor her behaviour, and I feel every sympathy with the families of ISIS victims. It is not as simple a matter as some tabloid journalists make out.

I totally agree, I was just about to post something similar.

My heart and prayers lay firmly with the victims and their families of Daesh initiated atrocities.

This is not a clear cut either/or situation which is why a trial in a neutral Country could be the best thing for all concerned.

What would she actually be tried for here?
As GG13 said, drug traffickers are usually tried and jailed abroad, but are acts seen as atrocities here regarded the same way where she is.
Shamima apparently wants to come back to stand trial here.
What does she think she should be tried for? Anyone know?
Does she think she’s guilty, in which case she should be jailed where she is.
If she will be tried e.g. for supporting ISIS, then all the claims of ‘grooming’, “too young to know what she was doing” “didn’t realise the bombs would kill women and children” will be dragged up by her defence council and she’ll probably be freed on compassionate grounds.
Then she’ll be here to spread whatever she feels is the truth.
At least at the moment she will serve as a deterrent to others who think they can copy her actions, however unfair that may seem.

If she does return and stand trial she will be innocent until proven guilty, proving whatever crimes (if any) have been committed by her is going to be a real problem. I’m sure there will be a period in custody, not sure how long, or how much of a risk she is.

That aside, it is known that over 400 have travelled to support ISIS and returned to the UK, a few have been jailed, others are under surveillance I’m sure, is Shamina a bigger threat than them.

For all those who defend her, would you want her living next door to you, on benefits being supported by your taxes if you pay them? And if she were to commit an atrocity would you continue to defend her or say the usual ‘lessons will be learned’. I think she is despicable, very good at manipulation, not as innocent as some believe and I hope she remains where she is and that life for her there is uncomfortable. My thoughts are with those others have mentioned who have lost their lives as a result of her kind.

Mollygo My understanding is that the crime she committed was treason. I can't remember the exact details but back when her citizenship was revoked, the government were looking into the possibility of revising the 700 year old treason laws in order to prosecute not just Begum, but all home-grown terrorists.

In the event that Begum is allowed back to stand trial I think it is unlikely that she will serve any custodial sentence. Instead the tax payer will be paying huge sums of money to ensure that she is protected and she will probably be given a new identity. I really hope this government holds firm and do not allow her to return.

Why do we believe Javid when he states that he knows more about this girl than he is willing to divulge? Are we not yet used to Ministers lying to us - the public? I have strong memories of this country being taken into a dreadful war as the then PM told us about that their were weapons of mass destruction which could rain down on us withing 45 minutes!!!

Any idea of the costs involved in keeping someone under surveillance! The security services do a magnificent job in foiling many attacks that we rarely hear about. It’s known they don’t have the manpower to keep everyone on their ‘danger list’ under surveillance. Why put them under more pressure! These men and women work hard to keep us all safe. This woman would have to be closely monitored if she can back here and I’ve seen and heard nothing convincing to the benefits to the UK in her return. Plenty of benefits to her of course mostly in welfare payments.

But if she is such a threat don't we need to keep her under surveillance in the camp? Will she stay there forever or will a resurgence group round them up to help restart the Islamic State.
Her living in no man's land doesn't make us safer.

I very much doubt if she will be living on benefits. I would imagine there is a media bidding war in process for her story and if she can return to the west she will become something of a celebrity. Of course it will depend upon what she can legally be charged with in this country. I do wonder if that is one of the reasons the government is reluctant to permit her return, because it is doubtful that there is any crime she can be convicted of under UK law.