when gender blinds us to sex

That should be grabbing a breast. Oh for an edit button!

It's not a competition, but I would suggest that the fear of AIDS or other STIs, and the chance of pregnancy on top of the trauma of the rape do make male rape of a woman more serious. Anyone of either sex who is sodomised or orally raped is raped in law - it is the use of the penis that makes it rape.

It is all horrible, and comparisons like this are odious. I would prefer to see harsher sentences all round. It's not something I know a lot about, but I'm guessing that there will be leeway in sentencing for sexual assault, with something like grabbing a great at one end and sodomy or penetration with an object at the other, and the judge will have a lot of discretion when it comes to sentencing.

Rape by a man is the offence under discussion trisher. If those offences are committed by a male, whatever he claims to be, then they are already covered by the law. Why would you suggest or imply that these offences might be seen as lesser?

Precisely Doodledog.

GrannyGravy13

Doodledog

I think a more useful way would be to increase sentences for sexual assault with an implement (regardless of the gender of the assailant or victim), but keep the definition of rape as it is.

Horrible though all of this is, rape carries with it the possibility of STIs and pregnancy as well as the trauma of the assault.

Totally agree with everything you have said, I admire your eloquence, knowledge and patience on this.

No possibility of pregnancy when a man is raped. Or when a woman is orally or anally raped. Are those then lesser offences?

Exactly Doodledog.

Women are not supposed to insist on keeping a word that defines them as adult human female, but to move aside and share the word with transwomen.

Women are not supposed to mind when they are no longer being called mothers, but to move aside and let transwomen rename them.

Women are not to ask for exclusive rights to be in female spaces, which were won after years of fighting for places where males could not hurt them, such as DV refuges, or places where they are vulnerable, such as prison cells, as transwomen want to be given access.

Women are not to expect relief from things like poverty, disproportionate prison sentences for minor offences such as shoplifting and non-payment of fines, and not to expect the gender pay gap to be reduced, as they don't appear in statistics as female, but as part of a larger group that includes transwomen.

Women are to accept that statistics for sex-based crimes, such as rape and sexual assault will be skewed, as by far the majority of such offences are committed by men, some of whom will now be included in the figures as women if they claim to identify as such.

We don't have a definition of what a woman actually is, as the term 'adult human female' is considered so offensive that an MP had to stay away from her Party Conference for using it.

A professor of philosophy is hounded out of her job, which is to teach young people to critically assess ideas, for saying that safe spaces for women should not be open to male-bodied people, however they identify.

Women with English as a second language, low educational attainment or cultural norms which mean that they are less likely to be able to name female reproductive organs may miss out on cervical smears as they are to be aimed at 'people with cervices', (a phrase which they may not realise applies to them) as opposed to the more straightforward 'women', in order that transwomen don't feel excluded.

Transwomen can 'claim to have' a cervix, as they believe that they do (ditto transmen who claim to have a penis).

But none of this is misogynistic, and none of it is about erasing women. No siree.

Exactly Rosie51.

Given the shockingly low number of prosecutions why would any woman chose to focus on the small number of female sex offenders ? I wonder that too. The insistence women offend in equal ways and at equal rates as men, when it is clear this is just not true. The assertion that woman rape or force men into sex at equal rates according to the study cited by a PP. It's baffling how women are strong enough to overcome a man by force and make him have sex with them, but don't have that same physical strength to prevent a man from raping them.

Whataboutery is usually the refuge of those with no real arguments left.

Why is it that every discussion about male violence, male sexual violence, men ra;I got women (and other men) results in attempts to suggest women present similar threats. No, they do not.
Some women commit sexual offences. Only men can rape. Given the shockingly low number of prosecutions why would any woman chose to focus on the small number of female sex offenders ?

Doodledog

I think a more useful way would be to increase sentences for sexual assault with an implement (regardless of the gender of the assailant or victim), but keep the definition of rape as it is.

Horrible though all of this is, rape carries with it the possibility of STIs and pregnancy as well as the trauma of the assault.

Totally agree with everything you have said, I admire your eloquence, knowledge and patience on this.

Good point DD.
I hope Priti will not be subject to the sort of verbal and physical abuse currently aimed at anyone who tries to support female’s rights. Sadly I expect the shouts of TERF, transphobics or cries for her to stand down etc. will already be in the air.
What is most concerning here is that once again the appalling crime of rape of females by males, however those males present, is being sidelined by introducing mention of all sorts of other crimes, which in themselves are unacceptable, but are not the same as rape.
Don’t cry for the law about rape to be changed. Have a law which deals with those other crimes instead.

Once again there was a case where a woman, posing as a man, was convicted of deceiving a woman into having sex with her as she thought she was a man. She wore a dildo.

Well done Priti

I think a more useful way would be to increase sentences for sexual assault with an implement (regardless of the gender of the assailant or victim), but keep the definition of rape as it is.

Horrible though all of this is, rape carries with it the possibility of STIs and pregnancy as well as the trauma of the assault.

Rosie51

^I think the way the law currently describes rape makes it purely an offense of men against women^ then you'd be wrong. The act of rape is the penetration of a vagina, anus or mouth by a penis without the consent of the other party. Men can be anally or orally raped. Not having a vagina (despite some transwomen's assertions) men can not be vaginally raped.

Sorry I think I didn't explain this quite clearly enough. I think it is the way the law is perceived that makes it appear as an offence of men against women and links it to sex, which in the long run means that discrimination and judgement is involved from the start. Legally redefining it would I think bring more equality and might move it from some of the historic prejudices it carries.
I do realise men are raped as well.

Have you really thought that comment through doodledog because this issue is not... Its not a small thing to be made light of no matter how few the victims, it's painful and devastating and deeply concerning.

Women still don't get heard or believed, still are too afraid to come forward. Do we really want men to feel that way too or to fight for progress and just leave them to suffer in silence?

Bed time for me.

like hen's teeth!

VioletSky

Similar levels of punishment would certainly be a a good start.

My problem is that you know, the word "rapist" has power, it shows clearly that human being is disgusting. Beyond contempt. If a woman forces sex on a man, she is a what?

A rarity?

Those other crimes, tho, should be seen as similarly serious and should be subject to a similar level of punishment.

They carry a far less custodial sentence though FarNorth as they're classified only as Assault by Penetration. Grim isn't it?

Similar levels of punishment would certainly be a a good start.

My problem is that you know, the word "rapist" has power, it shows clearly that human being is disgusting. Beyond contempt. If a woman forces sex on a man, she is a what?

I think the way the law currently describes rape makes it purely an offense of men against women then you'd be wrong. The act of rape is the penetration of a vagina, anus or mouth by a penis without the consent of the other party. Men can be anally or orally raped. Not having a vagina (despite some transwomen's assertions) men can not be vaginally raped.

I think extending the definition would further the reality that rape is nothing to do with sex but is a demonstration of power and that power can be anyone dominating another person by penetrating their body with anything, a body part or an implement

There is something particularly repulsive about a man using his penis, presumably with sexual excitement, in this way.
It is not the same as the other revolting crimes mentioned and should remain as a separate category, in my view.
Those other crimes, tho, should be seen as similarly serious and should be subject to a similar level of punishment.

No, we just don't agree